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I've been into 40k off and on since right after the 2nd edition came out. Last time I was active was about 10 years ago, but mostly focused on building and painting and played only a few games before starting my family and (maybe foolishly) selling off my ~1500pts of Orks.

Now my two boys (ages 8 and 10) are getting really interested and excited about 40k. The older boy loves Orks and his younger brother is excited about Crimson Fists. Both of them play a lot of boardgames and some videogames and are eagerly getting into the building and painting aspect of the hobby.

I'm seeking suggestions for making their first games enjoyable. 40k has a big learning experience, and I'm quite rusty and was never a hardcore player at any time in the past.

It seems like 200 - 500pt games would be a good place to start, ideally with reasonably balanced units where better tactics (and/or luckier dice) will be the biggest deciding factor, rather than one kid having a seriously OP list and tabling his brother (that won't end well).

I've got the BRB along with the Orks and Space Marine codexes. Any suggestions most appreciated!

Honestly, check out the Dark Vengeance or the new BA/Nids set. They may not exactly fall in line with your kids factions, but they come with great mission guides for small games like you are looking for. That, or you could get the mission guide itself on eBay for cheap and tailor small lists to your liking.

A raise in their allowance?

I would encourage them to get 2 units of infantry and an HQ and see if they like the game. Encourage them to remove the mold lines from the models and put 3 colors of paint on them. As far as which armies to choose, go with the kids first choices...don't let them read up online to find the "power" armies!

Edited to add: If one does choose Orks, probably get 3 (or 4) sets of boyz. Even if he doesn't build them all he'll see that Orks take a bigger commitment than most armies.

Low points or even kill teams might be fun (just to get the rolling down)

It also limits crazy equipment and stuff.

Keep it simple. mabye max 1 transport, the rest just basic grunts and troops.

eventually adding in faster units to make it interesting.

also make up scenarios and missions to keep them thinking rather than hur dur kill all the things.

If you want to be "That Dad" you can annoy them by making a narrative campaign and make them write mission reports and other stuff to keep them learning

Thanks for the replies so far!

I should have mentioned that on the Ork side we've got 5 nobs and 10 boys already, and on the SM side we've got 10 tactical beakies.

We'll expand those out to meet the minimum requirements, and the suggestion to just get whatever the kids like the best (in terms of these basic units) is a good one.

A game store employee actually mentioned free Kill Team rules that could be downloaded from the web, are these the ones?
http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html

Orks also have the snap-fit models.
While they will look repetative and have fixed gear (pistol and coppa) they make a decent way to cheaply and quickly build a number of orks.

And orks WILL need to outnumber the marines. the old AOBR kit had them in near equal numbers, and as such was tilted towards the marines.

Unfortuantly ABOR is very old, and to get it now is actually more expensive than just buying kits X_X

Thes real question is, how much $ are you willing to drop here for the "test run"?
Because that will change what we suggest to you.

Also, if there are given models that they are more attracted to that you know of, it will help us suggest the right (and properly balanced) setup for you to get. no point getting a liberirian if your marine boy does not like the concept of psykers, right?

There's no doubt the older boy will be into this - he's a huge boardgamer already and has been absolutely captivated by 40k. At the bare minimum, he and I will continue to play even if the younger one just proves to have occasional and/or passing interest (although in time that will probably evolve).

To start, we'll focus on getting an HQ and enough troops to fill out the minimum required slots for a legal 40k army on each side. Ultimately building up around 1500-2000pts worth of each army is probably realistic. Spread out, the investment (in both $$$ and time/effort) will be manageable.

I'm thinking something like a Warboss, 5-10 Nobs and the rest of the points in Boys will probably be OK for the Orks, and based on previous experience a couple 10 man squads of tactical marines including sergeants with PF, and an HQ choice (whatever the boy likes best, he seems drawn to those Chaplains with the skull helmets) should have no trouble cleansing the xenos filth. From there add fast attack, heavies, etc. as time and motivation dictate.

Suggestion - figure out if they are interested in painting, or playing, and focus their attention there for a year.

Kids have lots of different perspectives on the game. Figure out what appeals to them most.

And, for the record, consider your spend rate for new stuff for them. I know a player who can't afford college for his oldest but does have him set up with a couple armies.

To be sure, the splashout for the game/hobby is only going to come from discretionary income, not college / retirement / etc

It looks like a SM Captain plus two 5 man Tactical squads comes out roughly the same as a Warboss with PK / Lukky Stikk and two squads of 10 Boys. Depending on the scenery / table layout that could be a pretty fun matchup, I think, so long as the Orks didn't have to charge through too many wide open spaces?

Kill teams are always fun, and they can then experiment with virtually any faction and playstyle.

Also you can run many kill team games quite quickly and have mini campaigns as well.

Are the GW Kill Team rules the preferred/recommended, or one of the various ones from the interwebs?

Well, the first thing is to run with what they're excited about (for now - it might change every 30 minutes or so...). If they want to do painting, start with painting. If they want to start with the background, get them a book or a codex or something. Pick the lowest hanging fruit.

As for their first game, I'd recommend finding some way of making it co-op (and part of a campaign, if you can), despite the silliness of orks and crimson fists being on the same team. Nothing is going to spoil the younger one's interest in the game quite as much as losing a couple of games to his older brother.

And definitely start with keeping it simple. Use as few rules as you can, and don't be afraid to simplify them or change things to make it flow better. You're not trying to make them tournament-ready in a single game, it's mostly about getting familiarity and having fun. Especially at this age.

If you allready have Ork and SM dex - why not go for AoBR. It's quite well ballanced and is a good place to start. It might get trickier to find the set but when you do, it's gona be cheaper than buying new books anywayz. Some people are willing to sell it even now.

Orkses expand great from it. Koptas are alwayz useful and can easilly be converted to bikes or buggies. Boyz and boss are alwayz useful. Nobz will be needed in other squads besides, AOBR nobz are quite huge and will easilly pass as indeps. Great for conversions once again. Can even make MANz out of them using Plasticart or plastic clay but it's harder to do.

As for the SM, i'd say that it's a bit worse for further expansions. While tacticals are gona be used in almost any list, Captain is a bit more tricky as you generally want him on bike and with other weapons and it will require chopping monolith parts off. But he can be converted to a libby who's doing fine. Dread is usable either as longranged support or an ironclad in a droppod - magnetise it. Termies are generally considered not worth it but a squad of 5 won't be a handicap.

You should probably talk to SM players to get more details about Blackreach SM. As an ork player, i can tell you for sure that Blackreach Orks are awesome.

One guy has suggested me an ork part of the set for 2500 rub ~ 40$ a few days ago. And i've denied cause i can get it cheaper if i really wanted to while the guy didn't want to drop the price and i allready own blackreach stuff other than koptas and don't need more bosses and nobz. But if i wanted to start, i'd take it for sure.

Keep it simple.

Move, shoot, assault.

You could even take a picture of the figure and put it on a card with what it needs to roll to hit/wound/armor save. I think there was a cheat sheet like that on the back of the Battle For MacCragge scenario booklet that came with the 4th ed. Kit. It is possible that the 5th ed AoBR had that too but I don't recall off hand.

Small games. Don't toss Gorkanauts and Land Raiders onto the field starting off, they're intimidating to paint and to play with. Run Kill Team scenarios a bit and make sure they're comfortable with the game, I've seen people try to throw 1,500pt 40k or 35pt WMH at a ten-year-old who gets frustrated, then bored, and wanders off and never touches it again.

Yep, small pt games are great. 1 HQ, 1-2 infantry squads, some basic support. Good to go.

The starter sets for Dark Vengeance are just really solid values and the rulebook is a must anyways, so really, you cant lose with it.

If they want to do it, let them do it and let them do it their way. Let them paint the miniatures the way they want and let them play the game the way they want. If you get too involved to early they might lose interest entirely. Just let them see how they get on for awhile doing their own thing. If they want to play the game properly then they will come to you. Then you can get into the basic mechanics of the game.

Also don't spend too much cash straight away. I would maybe only just buy a box or a HQ just to see if they keep interest in it. They might find out after building a guy that it's not for them.

Thanks all for this great advice, it's most appreciated!

We played our first mini-game last night - just focused on moving, shooting, assaulting. It got to be bedtime before they were able to finish but it gave them both a good taste of how to use their respective troops.

Both enjoyed it and are looking forward to doing some painting and more playing on the weekend.

The younger one did mention that the game was "a lot of work" due to all the looking up of things - I had them pulling out stats for their troops and their weapons so they'd learn how it all came together - and honestly, he's right.

But he still had fun, even though one of his squads of tactical beakies got pwned pretty hard in CC with a mob of Ork Boys (the sergeant was the only survivor, ultimately failing a morale check and falling back).

On the flipside, his other squad had flamed and shot to pieces the other mob of Ork Boys, making it pretty much a draw (in terms of squads) by the time we had to stop.

We'll focus on getting the models painted and see where the playing goes. I'm totally OK with streamlining things - we'll just be playing at home for now, the important thing is to have fun and get used to thinking tactically. I won't let a slavish devotion to trying to remember every single rule get in the way of that

So we've got the Ghazghkull supplement and our Ork army is looking to be going the Green Tide route (1 WB + 10 Boyz mobs, with second CAD containing Doc Grotsnik, maybe a couple squads of Gretchin, and some Mek's Guns / Looters / other heavy support). Let's say that'll ultimately build up to around ~1500 - 1850pts worth of units, with over 100 models on the table (we've already got more than half the Boyz we need and will be working on filling out the rest in time).

What's a good, balanced way to counter that kind of horde list with a vanilla Space Marine build? We currently have a Tactical Squad built and painted, as well as an Assault Squad built and a Commander and Chaplain in box. Would drop pods be good? Or focus more on artillery / templates?

The ultimate goal is to make it so each army has a unique strength that will give it roughly equal chance of winning vs the other, so that each boy's tactical decisions become the deciding factor. And to confirm, the meta is just my two kids... so the lists can (and IMHO should) be tailored to suit this goal.

Start by shooting them up with heroin... Then slowly start melting plastic into the heroin in a 1:10 ratio, then 1:5, then 1:2.

Money. Lots and lots of money.

Exalted both those helpful replies!! Thx bros. Keep up the good work.

It depends on how much advantage you wana give to one or the other.

one is clearly a massive hoard so bringing nothing but heavy bolters and flamers or land raiders would be pretty cheesy.

I would keep it simple. Captain or whatever hq, 2-3 units of 5man tacticals or 1-2 10 man tacticals so he can combat squad
missile lauchers or a heavy bolter at most. a flamer possibily.

And some METAL BAWXS. no need to tread in heavy armor (though a dreadnaught is always iconic) terminators are nice too and eat up a bunch of points while not being tooo silly op.

friend of mine's son was just getting some intreast in 40k. he bought him the complete dawn of war set awhile back

 Desubot wrote:
It depends on how much advantage you wana give to one or the other.

one is clearly a massive hoard so bringing nothing but heavy bolters and flamers or land raiders would be pretty cheesy.

I would keep it simple. Captain or whatever hq, 2-3 units of 5man tacticals or 1-2 10 man tacticals so he can combat squad
missile lauchers or a heavy bolter at most. a flamer possibily.

And some METAL BAWXS. no need to tread in heavy armor (though a dreadnaught is always iconic) terminators are nice too and eat up a bunch of points while not being tooo silly op.

Thanks. I'm hoping to keep it as balanced as possible. We've been playing small 200 - 300pt games so far, i.e. a Warboss and 1-2 mobs of Boyz versus a SM Captain and two 5 man Tac squads, one with flamer and the other with multimelta (was how we built the model, but thinking it's going to be a counts-as heavy bolter for these smaller games).

So far the Orks have been kicking the beakie's butts pretty badly, mainly because the SM player hadn't fully grasped how much damage a Warboss, Nob and 10+ Boyz can inflict in CC... but he's picking up on it real quick and learning how to kite instead of charge the Orks. Maybe I've done a poor job setting up the terrain, but the 24" range of the boltguns + multimelta doesn't provide that many salvos before the Orks are charging. And a flamer template is well within charge range. So, at our low skill level some heavy bolter action is probably going to help even things up some at range before the charge happens. Will look at proxying in a missile launcher too.

Thanks again!

Glad to hear they enjoyed it. Keep up the good work!

Zodgrim Dakathug wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It depends on how much advantage you wana give to one or the other.

one is clearly a massive hoard so bringing nothing but heavy bolters and flamers or land raiders would be pretty cheesy.

I would keep it simple. Captain or whatever hq, 2-3 units of 5man tacticals or 1-2 10 man tacticals so he can combat squad
missile lauchers or a heavy bolter at most. a flamer possibily.

And some METAL BAWXS. no need to tread in heavy armor (though a dreadnaught is always iconic) terminators are nice too and eat up a bunch of points while not being tooo silly op.

Thanks. I'm hoping to keep it as balanced as possible. We've been playing small 200 - 300pt games so far, i.e. a Warboss and 1-2 mobs of Boyz versus a SM Captain and two 5 man Tac squads, one with flamer and the other with multimelta (was how we built the model, but thinking it's going to be a counts-as heavy bolter for these smaller games).

So far the Orks have been kicking the beakie's butts pretty badly, mainly because the SM player hadn't fully grasped how much damage a Warboss, Nob and 10+ Boyz can inflict in CC... but he's picking up on it real quick and learning how to kite instead of charge the Orks. Maybe I've done a poor job setting up the terrain, but the 24" range of the boltguns + multimelta doesn't provide that many salvos before the Orks are charging. And a flamer template is well within charge range. So, at our low skill level some heavy bolter action is probably going to help even things up some at range before the charge happens. Will look at proxying in a missile launcher too.

Thanks again!

Dont forget that if you deploy to one side and lure the orks into doin the same it gives you extra turns and interposing terrain to fall back from them. To extend it further if charge seems imminent, dont shoot but instead run. The following round you can shoot again, buying you one more valuable round of terrain and shooting than you might have gotten and it means less orcs make it to the fight on the charge. Little things. use the clock as a weapon.

OK so we played a quick game this morning and the SM player (youngest boy) lost one Tac squad and his Captain to CC, but was able to take serious revenge-via-flamer-and-frag-grenade with his other 5 man Tactical squad and wipe the remaining Orks off the board, including the Warboss (who'd been brought down to 1 wound by the SM Captain in CC). The Orks were still bunched up after killing off the Tac squad and the templates proved punishing. That was his first victory in 40k and he was totally stoked.

After that we assembled some models and now the boys are on their own painting (they actually do pretty well, and, welp, they gotta learn somehow).

I think they like it!

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful replies, it's been great.