Lelith Hesperax

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**Icculus**

So I have long been a distant admirer of the Dark Eldar army. I had the last edition codex and decided to pick up this current one for fun and came across Lelith's new rules and build.

So she re-rolls all failed to hits and to-wounds in a challenge. Awesome
She is WS 9. Awesome (well WS 10 with warlord trait)
She is S3. Ouch
Armor Saves cannot be taken against her attacks. Awesome

She can take an Impaler for 15 points...WTH?

Why would you add 15 points to her, only to get "reroll 1s to wound in close combat"? She will most likely be in a challenge anyway to make use of her crazy initiative and WS, so the reroll does nothing. The only other benefit the impaler has is that it's AP 5. But that doesnt matter to Lelith, she ignores armor saves anyway.

So why on earth did they give her that option?

Also, does anyone use Lelith? For all the cool stuff she has, it seems like being S3 would still slow her down quite a bit.

**Quanar**

The Impaler is an option mostly because it was on the original Lilith model (and I believe is an option on the current model), so in case anyone is still using that model, they have it as an option. Plus sometimes people decline challenges, so it's not completely pointless.

**Zewrath**

Because almost no one will take the challenge and then watch her miss 1/3 of her hits and fail to wound 1/2 the time at best and 1/6 of the time at worst.

Really, she's quite awfull on the TT, sadly. :/

**vipoid**

A few points:

- Rerolling to-hit and to-wound rolls in a challenge really isn't that useful. It means that either your opponent will just refuse your challenge (in which case, enjoy having most of your attacks bounce off even T4), or he'll accept with something that can tank your S3 attacks without issue.

- Her Warlord trait is one of the worst in the game.

- She's T3 without EW. A 3++ looks a lot less useful when even a Power Maul will insta-kill you.

The other thing for me is that I take Succubi because they're cheap and killy. Lelith isn't cheap, and I'd argue that she isn't even very killy (certainly not relative to what she costs). So, what am I paying for?

I mean, for 95pts I can have a Succubus with the Glaive. She has 5 S4 attacks on the charge (S5 if she has FC) and will be striking before most enemies and hitting them on 3s. On average she'll kill 1.7 Marines or 2.2 with FC.

Lelith has (if outnumbered) an average of 8 S3 attacks on the charge (S4 with FC). She kills an average of 1.8 marines or 2.7 with FC.

So, she's basically the same without FC, and kills .5 of a marine more with FC. Is that really worth 55pts?

And, bear in mind that you're also losing access to Combat Drugs, Haywire Grenades (on the off-chance you want them), and our artefacts.

I just don't understand what I'm paying for with her.

**Solis Luna Astrum**

Fluff tax I guess.

**H.B.M.C.**

Icculus wrote:
So I have long been a distant admirer of the Dark Eldar army. I had the last edition codex and decided to pick up this current one for fun and came across Lelith's new rules and build.

So she re-rolls all failed to hits and to-wounds in a challenge. Awesome
She is WS 9. Awesome (well WS 10 with warlord trait)
She is S3. Ouch
Armor Saves cannot be taken against her attacks. Awesome

She can take an Impaler for 15 points...WTH?

Why would you add 15 points to her, only to get "reroll 1s to wound in close combat"? She will most likely be in a challenge anyway to make use of her crazy initiative and WS, so the reroll does nothing. The only other benefit the impaler has is that it's AP 5. But that doesnt matter to Lelith, she ignores armor saves anyway.

When you read something like this you get the distinct feeling that the fine folks writing the rules either...

1. Don't understand how their own rules interact.
2. Think that narrative is more important (or supersedes) creating rules that make sense.
3. Genuinely don't care that this doesn't make any sense.

Any of those options is rather troubling in my mind.

**Zewrath**

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Fluff tax I guess.

I won't even accept that as an answer tbh.
In the Legion of the Damned e-book (yes I was stupid enough to buy it, don't judge), there's a mission were the DE fight the Dark Templars and in that mission Lelith has the 'Baleful Poison' special rule, which grants her 2+ poison. This would've been awesome and it would make the impaler upgrade much better and she would honestly been more worth considering.
I honestly find it stupid that she doesn't have that rule as default, I mean I'm willing to accept that she's not using drugs because of personal reasons however, I'm not willing to accept that she's not using poisons. For Emperor's sake, everything that breathes in the Commorragh has some kind of affinity for a perverse and sadistic poison that most likely causes unfathomable pain, how am I suppose to believe that the Queen of all the sadistic bitches doesn't use poisons!? Screw that!

**DaKKaLAnce**

Honestly , fluff about her and Wyches is great. If wyches were to get rending attacks, it would make since. Hell, for lelith is would really make since. Lore wise she kills everything/anything that gets put into the arena against her. Rending would've been great on her

**vipoid**

Zewrath wrote:
Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
Fluff tax I guess.

I won't even accept that as an answer tbh.
In the Legion of the Damned e-book (yes I was stupid enough to buy it, don't judge), there's a mission were the DE fight the Dark Templars and in that mission Lelith has the 'Baleful Poison' special rule, which grants her 2+ poison. This would've been awesome and it would make the impaler upgrade much better and she would honestly been more worth considering.
I honestly find it stupid that she doesn't have that rule as default, I mean I'm willing to accept that she's not using drugs because of personal reasons however, I'm not willing to accept that she's not using poisons. For Emperor's sake, everything that breathes in the Commorragh has some kind of affinity for a perverse and sadistic poison that most likely causes unfathomable pain, how am I suppose to believe that the Queen of all the sadistic bitches doesn't use poisons!? Screw that!

I kinda think the same about wyches themselves. Even if they don't plan on poisoning their weapons in the arena, surely they'd poison them for the actual battlefield?

**Portugal Jones**

It's like GW decided that Wyches being an effective CC unit and having a working SC was just too much to ask.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Portugal Jones wrote:
It's like GW decided that Wyches being an effective CC unit and having a working SC was just too much to ask.

This.