SM Anti Tank: how much?

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**mathaius90**

I was pondering how many/which AT firepower should I bring to the table? I usually play in the 1500-1750 points range.
Which unit is more efficient at AT role?
How many do you guys field of each unit?
Which light AT/heavy AT units do you field?

Now, for a more specific question:

I play White Scars, my AT consists in:

Light AT
Dual LS Typhoon
Random amount of Grav (even if I don't consider Grav to be an AT weapon)
Stormtalon w/skyhammer
Captain/CM with TH

Heavy AT
5-man Bike squad 2 Meltas 1 Combimelta 1 MultiMelta Meltabomb
5-man Bike squad 2 Meltas 1 Combimelta Meltabomb

I'm worried about the Heavy AT part. Is it enough/too much? My meta isn't particularly vehicle-heavy.

**morganfreeman**

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't grav-guns the way to go for heavy AT?

More shots, more types of targets, just about as reliable (probably more due to the extra shots)?

**mathaius90**

Dunno, they do something only on 6s, and I have to divert a lot of firepower to be enough sure I roll that 6... at least with melta I can still blow the thing up...
Are Lasdevs and Dual/Tri Las Predators efficient as long range AT support? I want to add some backfield support to my army too.

**Envihon**

I solve a lot of my AT with Devastator Squads both normal ones with Lascannons and Centurion Devastators with TL Lascannons and missiles but at the same time I use Imperial Fists with Sentinels of Terra so my Devastator squads either just normal SM or Centurions have Tank Hunter. I don't have much problem with tanks with them. And then my Thunderfire Cannons can even glance armor 12 if they have no infantry to fire at.

As far as Grav Guns because I use them on my Centurions too, they are good for AT because you may need 6s but it is an automatic immobilize and if you immobilize a vehicle who is already immobilized, that second shot does 2 hull points instead of just one so two 6s from Grav means that you just killed most vehicles.

**Nevelon**

What you have looks good for a 1,500 point list, particularly if your meta is vehicle light.

I often have some AV in drop pods. Either a melta tac squad, some combis on sternguard, or a dread. Gets it in range, first turn. Hard to beat. Not sure if it fits your style, and you shouldn’t use dreads as a WS player.

I do like putting lascannons on the table. Give them a good spot, and they can reach large chunks of the field. Preds, devs, dreads, and LRs are good sources. As a White Scar player, it’s a little harder to fit static firepower into your fluff. A tri-las pred might be the best option, or a dev squad with a razorback. Gives the feeling of mobility, even if they never move during the game.

Our flyers are other good sources, both the talon and the raven. The do start in reserves, which can be an issue if you want something blown up first turn.

Just getting more melta bike squads might be your best choice. I love mine, and I’m only using the Ultramarine CTs for them.

**mathaius90**

I like to think predators fit quite good with WS fluff, they are mobile enough on their own to be transported between battlefields and they can be repositioned quite fast too, even if most players play them in a more static way

I think I'll go the points-efficiency route and take them with LC sponsons and autocannon! Plus I like more the look of the AC turret, they look more like modern tanks

I can add another MM AB in the at squad without it just for the sake of simmetry!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fluff aside, can be good to equip dreddies with TL autocannon and TL LC instead of double autocannon?

**Nevelon**

One problem with mixing guns is inefficiency. If you need the S9 of the LCs to take down heavy armor, the autocannons are just stripping paint. And if you are just trying to knock HPs off glancing things to death, is it worth the points to lower your rate of fire?

On the flip side, by mixing you are giving up specialization for flexibility. Which while often frowned upon in competitive circuits, is fine for a TAC list in a more casual meta.

I fielded my pred as an auto/las almost all the time. With the cost dropping on the TLLC turret though, it might be worth upgrading if you have the points. Should work fine without though, and I agree on the looks.

**Martel732**

I like tri-las to get as many 48" AP 2 shots as I can get. They are great for doubling out broadsides, etc.

**mathaius90**

Nevelon wrote:
One problem with mixing guns is inefficiency. If you need the S9 of the LCs to take down heavy armor, the autocannons are just stripping paint. And if you are just trying to knock HPs off glancing things to death, is it worth the points to lower your rate of fire?

On the flip side, by mixing you are giving up specialization for flexibility. Which while often frowned upon in competitive circuits, is fine for a TAC list in a more casual meta.

I fielded my pred as an auto/las almost all the time. With the cost dropping on the TLLC turret though, it might be worth upgrading if you have the points. Should work fine without though, and I agree on the looks.

I like tri-las to get as many 48" AP 2 shots as I can get. They are great for doubling out broadsides, etc.

You're both right, I better max out the LCs for heavy AT duty, since I already have quite a lot of light AT in my list! I really like Predators, so I can't wait to field at least one!!

**Martel732**

I will warn you I'm biased, as I'm using fast tri-las preds from the BA book. I find non-fast preds to be not quite as good. Honestly, I'm not super crazy about the ranged anti-tank options of the regular marines. I guess grav cannons, same as usual.

**Desubot**

Heavy AT
5-man Bike squad 2 Meltas 1 Combimelta 1 MultiMelta Meltabomb
5-man Bike squad 2 Meltas 1 Combimelta Meltabomb

Seems enough for me.

Better question is do you actually run into anti tank issues?

**mathaius90**

Not really, but I just wanted to know if I was playing too much/not enough AT and which solution is more effective.

**Martel732**

They're all different. I like lascannons a lot because of the range.

**Ninjakk**

If you haven't had any problems taking out vehicles, then you're definitely not using too little AT. So then focus on if you're using too much. About what percentage of your units with AT actually USE it? I'd say that this percentage should be around 20% to ensure that the situation of running too little AT doesn't come up.

My light AT usually consists of anything from assault cannons to missile launchers (I don't consider S8 AP3 to be heavy AT). Anything under 1500, and my heavy AT is just one Dev squad with 2 lascannons (110 points for one BS4 and one BS5 S9 AP2 shots). That usually does me well in lower points. 1750+, I usually add 2 missile launchers (for an extra glance every now and then) and a squad of grav-cents.

**acidlemon**

I like to have my anti tank easily transition into anti MC. Ex 5 man Dev squad with 3 lascannons. 2 models can soak wounds and they can basically take anything on with relative ease until av 13 and 14 are thrown at them. Then it becomes a tad riskier. Then they can start taking wounds off of a carnifex or grounded DP. On bikes Id go with plasma for light vehicles and MC's or Melta for heavy vehicles or grav for a bit of both like the plasma.

**kingbobbito**

I tend to run a las dev squad, accompanied by a las razorback. Either start with them out of it if you have a good spot to set them up, or use it to get them into a good position fast. Then in addition to the extra TL las you're getting, you can also use it to screen incoming fire, blocking shot from any direction except where your target is.

That's just what I like if you plan on adding more AT stuff. From what it sounds like though, you really aren't struggling too much with them though. That's a lot of melta you're packing, so anything short of a mech list shouldn't be much issue for them. Even then you're still going to take out a decent bit before you lose them, and the light AT can mop up the remains. I'd only genuinely be scared if I was facing more than 4 heavy tanks given what you're using.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not familiar with all the WS tactics, do their bikes get scout too or is that just ravenwing?

**Crazyterran**

Grav cannon cents, maybe drop command meltas in higher points games.

Oh, and my bikes have Meltaguns, but that's because flamers are meh and meltas are cheaper and fit into my list.

**mathaius90**

kingbobbito wrote:
I
I'm not familiar with all the WS tactics, do their bikes get scout too or is that just ravenwing?

WS bikes and dedicated transports gain Scout with Khan

I think I'll try to fit a Dev squad+ razorback (I'll field Kor'Sarro so they gain scout

) or a preddy, maybe a command squad full plasma instead of grav just to test and swap an AT bike squad with flamers/grav!

**Big Blind Bill**

In my WS bike army I run 6 squads of bikes, 3 of them with melta, 3 of them with grav, all sergeants have a combi-weapon and melta bombs.

The rest of the army is spent on a few TFC, and a couple of storm talons (with skyhammers).

The final points are used for an imperial knight.

So all in all most of my army can deal with armour, and I've never found said amount to be lacking.

I find fast anti tank units with a melee potential (bikes and imperial knights) to be the best and most reliable method.