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Do I need to thin my paints? All the way? TO THE MOON?

As some vague background, I haven't painted-- or really played, other than my simming-- for more than 20 years. Along the way, between fibromyalgia and neurodegeneration, I knew I had some challenges, but augh! When I followed instructions to coat the brush, then just dip the tip in water (as per most of the pics here), I got the thick coating these guys have. When I tried dipping the whole brush, it was inconsistent, and I got a lot of bubbles. If I tried more than that, it would just run off and over everything else, and let a lot of the paint below show through. I also discovered along the way that I may need bifocals, since taking off my glasses let me see a lot more of the details my wife's camera revealed and to paint it easier (barring the occasional spasm of the hand, but I learn to live with that).

The medium-- other than acrylics and shame-- is a bunch of cheap "I wuv my gun!" models off E-Bay, used as my practice models. They were pre-primed with a thick black, so if there had been anything on the legs-- I think one or two might have had a purity seal down there, for example-- it was lost before I got there. Helpful criticism desperately needed. Side note- the bases are crap, I know that; I intend to finish them off as probably just matte black when I'm happy with the models.

Here we go:

Tactical Marine 1: Dark the Darkening:

This poor bastard got it on both the paint job and the lighting on the camera. Looking at him up close makes me facepalm with how many little flecks are missing.

Tactical Marine 2: So Close

And yet so far. This guy isn't quite so chunky, and there are a couple of nice details, but I'm half afraid to go back and correct the mistakes lest it end up even more boiled wax looking.

Tactical Marine 3: Eyes That Hate

A lot happier with this one... if I thought I could 'safely' put his eyes back in their sockets.

Tactical Marine 4: Eyes That Taunt

Wargleblargle. Here, I'm especially torn. I -think most of the image is thinned enough paints that I can and should go back and correct the bits. Am I just fooling myself?

Tactical Marine 5: Stay On Target...

This is one of the ones that I'm most happy with. Again, if I'm right that I'm not too AUGH HORRIBAD on paints not being sufficiently thinned, I think this one can just stand a bit of correction. I may be crazy, though.

Tactical Marine 6: Wrryyyy?

Looks ok to me at first... then when I zoom in, I see that every edge, everywhere, leaked.

Tactical Marine 7: Back on Target

Again, I think this one would be ok with a bit of touch-up, but I'm not sure.

Tactical Marine Sergeant: Sigh

I've already started fixing this guy. It may be a waste of time if I just decide to strip everything, but I feel like I'm on the edge of something. But that may just be blobbing.

Tactical Marine Flamer: EYES and EDGES AUGH!

It's ones like this that make me really think I have no idea what thinning is, in practice, depsite watching the tutorials.

Tactical Marine Missile Launcher: Maayyybe
'
Again, possibly not bad once I correct some of the edges... I think.

Dreadnought, Not Tactical. Except, You Know, He Knows Tactics


Trying to figure out how I'm going to do the scrollwork, but I think I'm actually pretty happy with this dude.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-91464-45144_Salamanders.html has alternate views and a group shot.

Well for first mini's you are on the right track and I can see progress from marine 1 up through the dreadnought.

Your paint is still a bit too thick, a good rule of thumb is if it coats in one its too thick.

Your brush control is getting better I can see that in progression of pictures, keep it up!

A few suggestions. Never paint white directly over black. it never works. Build up, I personally start from a light grey and go up through to an off white. Pure white should be saved for extreme highlights and then only at the pinnacle of the highlight.

That being said I would recommend not to use strait up black. Use a dark grey and build up from there (when you add your wash it will get into the recesses and make the dark grey's that much darker.

Hope that helps and keep painting and posting man.

Nice first minis! As the guy above, I really recommend you thin some more.

These models are unfinished, so unfortunately they are not supposed to be in the Showcase area, which is for finished work.

I will move the thread to the Painting & Modelling forum.

As the others say, your off to a good start. My first models were ceirtanly not better. As the others say, you need to thin it more and paint in several layers. I prefer to thin on the palette. Do you use a palette?

Could you also tell us a bit more on your process? What colours in what order you paint for the main armour?

Hey dude,

Not bad effort as said by the guys.
You are making progress.

I am by no means a pro painter or an expert. Ive just gotten back into hobby myself so I think I might be offer some help.

Just couple of things:

Are you undercoating your models? If not, You should.

If you don't know what I mean here is a vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MOmj-D9uo

What sort of ratio do you thin your paints to ?
If using water a 1:1 is a good place to start.

Its also looks like you are putting too much paint on your brush and that's why its getting blotchy. Try to only use/dip the tip end 1/3 of the brush.

What I found when I started painting is that, when you thin the paint and put it on, it looks like the undercoat is seeping trough so you instinctively want to use more paint right.
Its supposed to do that. And the key is to use at least 1-2 layers per colour.

What I mean is don't go straight to the colour you want the miniature to be.
Use a darker colour first (min of 1-2 very thin watered down coats) and then say another slightly lighter colour and so on until you reach your destination colour.
The number of layers and colours you put it will determine the end effect as well as the amount of time and care...

Key is to be patient. But its better to not have enough paint (as you can just add another coat...) then to pile on too much too thick paint and loose details.

This video might be useful to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MOmj-D9uo

Next:

Also Are you using a "wet pallet" This will let you mix a good consistency and keep it that way. if you are using a dry pallet the paint will dry quite quickly and you will waste a lot of paint and get impatient.
Wet pallets are extremely handy and are pretty much free.

Tutorial for wet pallets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96mjmqWTPfM

Last of all you might want to consider "dry brushing" and other techniques as you get better at this.

I hope this helps you as much as it helped me so far.

 darefsky wrote:
Well for first mini's you are on the right track and I can see progress from marine 1 up through the dreadnought.

Your paint is still a bit too thick, a good rule of thumb is if it coats in one its too thick.

Your brush control is getting better I can see that in progression of pictures, keep it up!

A few suggestions. Never paint white directly over black. it never works. Build up, I personally start from a light grey and go up through to an off white. Pure white should be saved for extreme highlights and then only at the pinnacle of the highlight.

That being said I would recommend not to use strait up black. Use a dark grey and build up from there (when you add your wash it will get into the recesses and make the dark grey's that much darker.

Hope that helps and keep painting and posting man.

Huh. I must have misread what I was going over-- a lot of what I was reading was saying it had to go on in one coat or be too thick. Thank you! And there is no white on black that I can recall; white's always one of my last colors barring retouching.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Nice first minis! As the guy above, I really recommend you thin some more.

Thanks! I have no idea where my ones from being a teenager are, so. I'm almost afraid to work on the guardsmen at this time, though I'm debating working on some heavy weapons teams for practices since I have the parts-- my parents, who have definitely got more money than we do, decided to buy me the Cadian battleforce for Christmas-- since after dealing with Sarge there, I'm half afraid to do anything with a face again.

I think on the thinning, some of the comments on here have clarified for me. If I'm not trying to get it on in one coat, I can go through in a loop between models at a time and back and forth, and fix as I go along and things dry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
These models are unfinished, so unfortunately they are not supposed to be in the Showcase area, which is for finished work.

I will move the thread to the Painting & Modelling forum.

Eek. Sorry; I figured the base didn't count. Thank you!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jorny wrote:
As the others say, your off to a good start. My first models were ceirtanly not better. As the others say, you need to thin it more and paint in several layers. I prefer to thin on the palette. Do you use a palette?

Could you also tell us a bit more on your process? What colours in what order you paint for the main armour?

On the palette-- not a real one. I misused the one that came with my paint kit so I used a disc-shaped bit of plastic from our recycle bin and got some spaces on there to splotch things so I wasn't putting it in the pots directly.

As for process, these were purchased as a part of my wife's year long deal hunt for my birthday, so they came to me pre-primed black; I suspect I'll continue to prime with black when I graduate to my actual pieces, except perhaps vehicles. Trying out a process I was watching, I mixed some yellow and tan together to get an undercoat over everything, then when that dried, I painted the green on top of it, going for everywhere except the guns-- technically, I often ended up getting them just as much from being "in the zone" or from splashes. Then I did the black, usually on the backpacks, shoulderpad, one kneepad and maybe some highlights here and there- oh, like the mouthpiece. Other colors followed in rotation-- silver or gold for various decorations or where I wanted 'metal' like on the guns, a light matte grey for casings, a couple of mixtures here and there, or repeated coats when I didn't have a color. When I was finished, I went back over them for neatness details, or to recolor things I thought were terrible-- the left pectoraloid region on the Dreadnought used to have red dots, too, but I just couldn't get them even, so I decided 'Frak it!' and they became green.

On that matter, guys, I'd appreciate your advice-- should I put everyone into paint thinner and try over again with the possible exception of the Dread? Or just a few? Or should I stick with what I have as a decent first effort, clean up the bases, and go on to practicing on other things?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
Hey dude,

Not bad effort as said by the guys.
You are making progress.

I am by no means a pro painter or an expert. Ive just gotten back into hobby myself so I think I might be offer some help.

Just couple of things:

Are you undercoating your models? If not, You should.

Yep. I thought it made a lot of logical sense, especially to use a color that mixed in to the next layer-- a tannish yellow in this case.

What sort of ratio do you thin your paints to ?
If using water a 1:1 is a good place to start.

That's one of the things that's frustrating me. I tried mixing them in the dinky plastic pseudopalette and ended up with a mess; I tried mixing them in empty jars and I could never get the consistency right. I ended up trying to just guess by numbers and depth of dip into a few separate things of water I kept around so that no one could fill up with paint too fast. I think, however, like you say below, it's a matter of perception, and I'm going to try using an empty pot to mix at 1:1 again with multiple layers.

Its also looks like you are putting too much paint on your brush and that's why its getting blotchy. Try to only use/dip the tip end 1/3 of the brush.

What I found when I started painting is that, when you thin the paint and put it on, it looks like the undercoat is seeping trough so you instinctively want to use more paint right.
Its supposed to do that. And the key is to use at least 1-2 layers per colour.

What I mean is don't go straight to the colour you want the miniature to be.
Use a darker colour first (min of 1-2 very thin watered down coats) and then say another slightly lighter colour and so on until you reach your destination colour.
The number of layers and colours you put it will determine the end effect as well as the amount of time and care...

Key is to be patient. But its better to not have enough paint (as you can just add another coat...) then to pile on too much too thick paint and loose details.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. With this and all of the other great tips, I think I'm getting a handle on what frustrated me.

Next:

Also Are you using a "wet pallet" This will let you mix a good consistency and keep it that way. if you are using a dry pallet the paint will dry quite quickly and you will waste a lot of paint and get impatient.
Wet pallets are extremely handy and are pretty much free.
(snipped)
I hope this helps you as much as it helped me so far.

It definitely helped! Thank you so much. And I'm watching the Wet Palette thing and I'll be trying that on the next round. If these ones don't look too much like horrendous abominations, I think I'll probably keep them as is and just start anew with the next set.

On the palette-- not a real one. I misused the one that came with my paint kit so I used a disc-shaped bit of plastic from our recycle bin and got some spaces on there to splotch things so I wasn't putting it in the pots directly.

I have used all kinds of things for palettes, plastic lids, ceramic tiles, old plates etc.. A piece of plastic from the recycling bin sounds great. Or try using a wet palette, that is what I use nowadays.

When it comes to mixing i wouldnt worry to much about being exactly 1:1, it is a rough estimate and the ratio differs from paint to paint. I would not try to use yars or anything like that. Mix on the palette so you practice getting a feel for how thin you want the paint!

What kind of paints are you using?

One more tip, do not load to much paint on your brush, there should not be a "blob" of paint covering the bristles.

When it comes to stripping. Do what you feel would be most fun! If you feel it would be fun to give the marines another go, strip, otherwise try some other miniatures!

 jorny wrote:

On the palette-- not a real one. I misused the one that came with my paint kit so I used a disc-shaped bit of plastic from our recycle bin and got some spaces on there to splotch things so I wasn't putting it in the pots directly.

I have used all kinds of things for palettes, plastic lids, ceramic tiles, old plates etc.. A piece of plastic from the recycling bin sounds great. Or try using a wet palette, that is what I use nowadays.

When it comes to mixing i wouldnt worry to much about being exactly 1:1, it is a rough estimate and the ratio differs from paint to paint. I would not try to use yars or anything like that. Mix on the palette so you practice getting a feel for how thin you want the paint!

What kind of paints are you using?

One more tip, do not load to much paint on your brush, there should not be a "blob" of paint covering the bristles.

When it comes to stripping. Do what you feel would be most fun! If you feel it would be fun to give the marines another go, strip, otherwise try some other miniatures!

Agree with everything here.

I'll add that thinning is really an art. It varies by color, paint rage, color within a paint range, relative humidity outside etc..... Just play with it enough and you will get a feel for how to make it work for you.

I would highly recommend a painting journal. Write stuff down when you figure out a mix so that you can repeat it. Wright down what worked and what didn't its a great way to learn. And trust me if you are mixing your own colors its a life savor when you need to touch up a model a year down the road and your trying to remember how you got that reddish green just right...

As to pallets. I use a wet pallet for most things (learning to 2 brush blend which apparently is no bueno with wet pallets, but that's a whole different story) DO NOT BUY A PREMADE WET PALLET, you can make one from a Tupperware (I used a ziplock one) container, two sponges and parchment paper. Seriously don't spend $20+ on something that you can literally make for like $4.

Other than that keep painting and posting pics man.

..

Never color whitened straight over dark. that never functions.

The real madness starts when you want to do a yellow over black scheme ohh why did I pick that scheme...

@ op post up some pics when you paint some more!