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Blood Angels Detachment: 2,000 points.


HQ:


Captain: Artificer Armour, Auspex, Digital Weapons, Valor’s Edge (Relic of Baal). 145pts.

Sanguinary Piest: 60pts.


Elites:


Furioso Dreadnought: Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer. Dedicated Transport Drop Pod: (35pts). 180pts.

Terminator Assault Squad: 5man, (5) Thunder hammer and Stormshield. Dedicated Transport Land Raider Crusader: Pintile Multi-Melta (260pts). 485pts.


Troops:


Tactical Squad: 10man, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Sgt Plasma Pistol. Dedicated Transport Drop Pod: (35pts). 210pts.

Tactical Squad: 10man, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Sgt Plasma Pistol. Dedicated Transport Drop Pod: (35pts). 210pts.


Fast Attack:


Assault Squad: 10man, (2) Meltagun, Sgt Veteran, Sgt Powerfist. Dedicated Tranport Rhino. (0pts.) 215pts.

Assault Squad: 10man, (2) Meltagun, Sgt Veteran, Sgt Powerfist. Dedicated Tranport Rhino. (0pts.) 215pts.


Heavy Support:


Vindicator: Overcharged Engines, Siege Shield. 140pts.

Vindicator: Overcharged Engines, Siege Shield. 140pts.



Total 2,000 points.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captain and Priest goes with Termies. In short I'm trying to design a heavy Assault list. Any input that can be offered that could improve what's seen, or what flaws you can think are there would be appreciated.

Assault elements shouldn't be in Rhinos, as Rhinos aren't assault transports.

I'd give the tactical squads a heavy flamer and a combi-plasma plasma gun set up and combat squad them.

Replace an assault squad with a DC squad.

Dump the Vindicators, as they are best in mech lists, not assault lists. You'll vindicate your own men.

The frag cannon dreadnought is almost strictly better than a blood talon dreadnought.

Martel732 wrote:
Assault elements shouldn't be in Rhinos, as Rhinos aren't assault transports.

I'd give the tactical squads a heavy flamer and a combi-plasma plasma gun set up and combat squad them.

Replace an assault squad with a DC squad.

Dump the Vindicators, as they are best in mech lists, not assault lists. You'll vindicate your own men.

The frag cannon dreadnought is almost strictly better than a blood talon dreadnought.

Transport and Vehicles are rather strong this edition- if anything it doesn't seem any worse than when I run twenty Assault Marines and have them all get gun-downed from their Jump Packs..

Vindicators. I've never once hit my own men with them before.. But could happen, I suppose. I'll take it to consideration with what I could replace it. I think their handy for a short-range heavy ap and str gun- which I lack I feel. Plus the more things I can make an opponent feel they need to shoot- well helps me get to assault. I'll have to do some play tests with the points going somewhere else. Could get about another Assault squad with them swapped out. We'll see.

Well, first up; I do like your starting point. I'm a fan of HQ choices that aren't loaded up with every possible option, saving points for more important things, particularly in high points games. I'll give my general thoughts, and a few recommendations, but as it stands I think you need to play this list once or twice before really altering it, as it looks pretty good-the effectiveness of the list will depend on your tactics in the end.

I like your squad loadouts, although the first thing I would be cutting is the plasma pistols on your tac Sgts if points need to be saved.

I'd be tempted to switch things up a bit though-run one Assault squad in a drop pod and one in a rhino, and the same with the tac squads. Your assault squads are somewhat better kitted out for popping tanks (although your tac squads will give it a good shot), so the ability to drop one tank hunting unit could make a bit difference. I would combat squad the assault squad once it drops-put all your melta in one squad for popping a tank, and then make the other five get as far away as possible to act as a harrassment unit-possibly send them to assist whatever comes out of the other pod which you drop on T1. This also limits how many of them can die at once, given that units with split fire aren't particularly common.

I prefer the redeemer to the crusader for a real assault transport, but I see the merits of both-I leave this choice up to you. An alternative here would be to put locator beacons on your drop pods and then use that to deepstrike your termies without scatter, which can make for a nice, targeted assault-although then you have reserves rolls to deal with, and you may not want them that close to the enemy given that you can't assault from deepstrike.

I'm not a fan of the vindicator personally, but again, I see the merits and wouldn't take it off the list until it stops working if you're a fan. A devestator squad with lascannons would also not be a bad choice for long range high AP Str.

The one problem I see here-how common are flyers where you play? There's not much here for dealing with them.

Id like to see the ASMs in DPs. Armor 11 tends to pop easily and the units will be left out of position.

@ Skolirvarden: I've anticipated the worst I could see from sky-fire being three Hell-drakes or a Necrons sky army. But I suppose I'm trying to tunnel vision and just push the field with all the Assault might I can pump. It's a tricky pick on the Crusader or Redeemer- but bullet before I get there seemed handy being so short gunned- but I may change that:

Thinking of dropping the Vindicators and maybe even the Assault squads or Dread for two Bike squads. Str and Init 5 on the charge, T5, Relentless, Jink save. many extra perks for 4 points more per-model to compare to Assault marines.. As much as I love them more than anything.. Which I only wish to know how to run my Assault Marines with Jump packs to make it worthy of a table-top game..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And @ Byte (also bit back at Skolirvarden): Drop Pods can be tricky for A marines- Great for tank popping! But then you have ten assault marines in the open.. Good distraction unit- but Tact could do it cheaper and perhaps even better if charged with a heavy flamer, more shots to over-watch (not a big thing..).

But at least A Marines can take a Drop Pod for free. Perhaps I'm being jaded on this one, as it could be quite viable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So! On added note: two both Vinds, the Dread, and an Assault Squad. And you get yourself 16 bikes and 2 attack bikes. with 119 points to spare.. Could drop the 2nd A squad- full 3rd bike squad- bit smaller and get semi-tact squad in for my 3rd pod back.. Dam I wish I could find a way for the blessed Jump pack the shine.. Any thoughts?..



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could just drop the Vindicators and run another 10 Assault marines and have 65 points to spare.. Much rant and debate upon myself here..

Jump pack assault marines should be ok in a list like this, where there is enough tough stuff on the board to keep things busy.

They work when you either a) have enough of them for target saturation, and therefore play the attrition game (not a good tactic against hordes, because they always win attrition), or b) have some distractions on the board and run the jump packs from cover to cover, until they're ready to hit something. In this case, the LR and vindicators should do the trick. Giving your priest a jump pack and running him with any jump pack marines you use is also worth doing, as it will keep everyone alive that bit longer. Again, combat squadding can help because it limits how many models can die when they start getting shot (ie, you can't kill both combat squads using just one squads shooting), but you need to be careful with your approach because ultimately you want both combat squads working together.

Alternatively, go one level up and bring in jump pack DC or vanguard vets-I'd be pushing for DC because you have the option, and they're just plain better.

Bikes work well, but if you love assault marines, I don't see why you shouldn't try to make them a viable force-it might be tricky in the early days, but at the end you have a force you love, and it will develop your strategic skills. Bikes are reasonably easy to make killy (grav, grav and more grav), which tends to make people somewhat lazy unless they're running a force where bikes have to be used to fill lots of holes (ravenwing in particular) that can't be filled by other units.

Heavy flamer is a useful tool in overwatch, but I don't think your tac squad will have an easier time popping tanks-one melta and a plas pistol aren't the same destructive power as two meltas. I'd use the assault squad, because ultimately the fate will be the same-without a real need to kill the tac squad immediately, I'd just hang back and shoot them to pieces, meaning overwatch doesn't matter. Once the melta guy is dead, that squad doesn't bother me nearly as much, and with only one melta it's possible that you won't even achieve your goal. Two meltas in the assault squad (and the PF) means that you've got double the chance of doing some damage, and suddenly I have to really commit to killing most of your squad-taking the heat off some other potential threats.

@Skolirvarden:

Many great points, this is going to help me a great deal.

Suppose at this point the question is if I have enough bodies for Attrition, and if not do I have enough distracting units to make up for small body count. 20 Assault Marines and 2 Vindicators, or 1 Vindicators and 30 Assault Marines.

Thoughts?

Hmmm.....tough call. The problem with dropping a vindicator is that your remaining vindicator becomes rather vulnerable, although your LR would also contribute to distracting. Possibly running an extra 5 assault marines and spending the remaining points on a bare techmarine who attends the one vindicator might be viable.

20 assault marines might work well, played right. I would first try (and no guarantees on a victory, of course ) combat squadding one of the squads, with one melta in each. Have the other squad stay as a group of 10 and run it with a jetpacking Priest. A confusing tactic, but basically means you have two units which are capable of running in, firing off a quick hard shot and then getting out of there, while the 'hard' squad presents a decent distraction which isn't easy to put down. At the same time you bring the LR up to drop its payload of Assault Termies and have your tac marines DPA to provide some 'in your face' action. The large assault squad picks its target and starts CC,, while the two smaller squads basically float around and provide some portable cheap melta to support units at need.

@Skolirvarden:

Interesting tactics.. I'll have to try that out in play-testing. Good feed-back all in all. Thanks, mate.

You keep saying the goal of the list is to load up with as much assault as you can but then why bother with the two vindicators? There is plenty of anti armor to be had in BA assault units.

If your doing a BA assault force why arnt you taking any of the elite assault units from the BA codex?

@Cauthon: I suppose that's a very fair point. It was a -- design from an older list, the thought was to give me needed fire-power- but being as involved in assault as I am (and with a Land Raider and two Tact squads) this is not as dire.

When looking at- after in thought and observation, the list could benefit from them being dropped. I'll need to contemplate on how I'll proceed..

Thank you for the Input.

If I was changing your list for my own taste-

Id drop the fragioso and two vindicators, drop the assault marines down to 7 (jump packs and deep strike but w/e)

Pick up two units of DC with JP 7-8 doods with 2-3 PF and add in a bike squad with cc/bp and some grav action.

Havnt worked the actual points but i think it would be close

What's an Overcharged Engine? Does that mean it goes faster?

Just have the same problem.

I don't like vindicators in general. They are effectively AV 11 since they have AV 11 sides and a 24" range.

overcharged engines make vehicles "fast" as explained in the brb.

Vindicators would be good anti (elite) infantry in a mech list. Park a couple rhinos on the sides with some special weapons shooting out if your really worried about whatevers coming up your flanks.

Cauthon wrote:
overcharged engines make vehicles "fast" as explained in the brb.

Vindicators would be good anti (elite) infantry in a mech list. Park a couple rhinos on the sides with some special weapons shooting out if your really worried about whatevers coming up your flanks.

So how much does these vindicators cost now? And there's no way to make them ignore cover, either. I'd pass on Vindicators in a TAC list.

@Martel1732 and Cauthon:

I somewhat disagree, a Vindicator is a Large Blast str 10 ap 2 with Ordance (roll 2 d6 on a pen, take the highest- it's like Melta but almost better when you're str 10 base). Just don't ever use it on Demon Princes or Montserous Creatures.

Though Vindicators are better served in the safety of other vehicles so that ideally they only ever takes smacks to armor 13- or a list that is ok having them blown up and can push forward without.

This list played almost a bit too reliant to them. To which I have made some changes for what I have in mind:

I will be keeping them in the list. However I plan to put the Tact marines in Rhinos instead of Drop Pods to take the heat off my Assault marines. And I also believe I will drop the dread to fit a few extra Assault Bodies in. All in all I think this will make a much more well rounded list. The

Vindicators I have can run with the team or be spread off, while still moving up and taking attention in places away from the main force and shooting. I was trying to use them to act like Rhinos as well, which I'm paying them to do that and something else for about 85 extra points..

Since I wont put the A Marines in Rhinos, the revelation hit to why not simply put the Tacts there. They still get movement, the whole army works together with moving up. And my Assault marines don't get shot to utter puddles of blood.

Seems like a win-win.

Thoughts on this?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I follow concept with the new format: switching to Rhinos and dropping a Dread with a Pod. I can fit in -Nine- more Assault Bodies just base (no added meltaguns or Powerfist, pretty much a body soaking squad). Giving me nearly 30 assault marines behind armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright, here is the re-visioned list:

Blood Angels Detachment: 2,000 points.


HQ:


Captain: Artificer Armour, Auspex, Valor’s Edge (Relic of Baal). 135pts.

Sanguinary Piest: 60pts.


Elites:


Terminator Assault Squad: 5man, (5) Thunder hammer and Stormshield. Dedicated Transport Land Raider Crusader: Pintile Multi-Melta (260pts). 485pts.


Troops:


Tactical Squad: 10man, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Sgt Plasma Pistol. Dedicated Transport Rhino: (45pts). 220pts.

Tactical Squad: 10man, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Sgt Plasma Pistol. Dedicated Transport Rhino: (r5pts). 220pts.


Fast Attack:


Assault Squad: 10man, (2) Meltagun, Sgt Veteran, Sgt Powerfist. Dedicated Tranport Rhino. (0pts.) 215pts.

Assault Squad: 10man, (2) Meltagun, Sgt Veteran, Sgt Powerfist. Dedicated Tranport Rhino. (0pts.) 215pts.

Assault Squad: 10man. 170pts.


Heavy Support:


Vindicator: Overcharged Engines, Siege Shield. 140pts.

Vindicator: Overcharged Engines, Siege Shield. 140pts.



Total 2,000 points.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
All Squad that can Combat Squad.

Rhinos will shield Assault Marines etc etc.

Each unit does what it's made for (Tact squads with varied killing utilities. A Squads and Termies get to Assault. Everything moves up and goes to close the gap).