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If this idea has been heavily discussed in the past and I missed it, sorry. But I'm kind of wondering why these aren't a thing. Strictly from a rules point, would a terminator librarian with a fist be that much better than one with an axe? And obviously charge 15+ points to take one, and maybe only allowed on termi librarians. The only impact it'd really have is making you more effective against MCs, and if a MC gets in melee with a squad of terminators it's in trouble anyways. Basically, you'd be paying a reasonable amount of points for a reasonable upgrade.

As for a fluff reason against this I couldn't really think of any. The guys at my store that I asked tried things like "well it has to cut them", but a force staff is blunt....

I don't know. Maybe it'd be silly broken and I'm overlooking it. Maybe it'd be basically useless? Maybe the Imperium will kill me for heresy if I try to make a force fist. I just want my terminator librarian to punch stuff instead of using some wimpy axe.

Well grey knights and inquisiton have nemesis daemon hammers which are practically force thunderhammers, so a force fist isn't to far fetched.

Ah, i'd love me some force power klaw on a wierdboy.

There's plenty of tough targets that are very resilient to s5 power axes. Be it wraithknights or even t6 MC or bikerbosses/nurglelords. Librarian - especially termie one - has so few attacks if you don't buff him with biomancy that i'd rather pay 10 pt extra to have better chances of insta-gibbing something like a wraithknight or a corpsethieft claw flying bug. Oh, and new necron mellee is gona cause a ton of troubles. The higher your chances of wounding are - the better. Besides, you're not always running a librarian with termies.

From a rules point of view any power weapon can be a force weapon. Its under the, unusaly weapons bit of the force weapon entry. Basicly says if doesn't fall unnder one of the set examples ie a force sword, then use it as is. I force fist sounds good too.

What I'm saying is do it lol. Why not punch something. It's 40k and thats another way to kill a big thing.

Well, there are "Nemesis Doomfists", which are just Dreadnought-sized force-powerfists. What's even the difference between a force weapon and a nemesis force weapon? I can't find anything other than "Nemesis circuitry", which isn't helpful.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Well, there are "Nemesis Doomfists", which are just Dreadnought-sized force-powerfists. What's even the difference between a force weapon and a nemesis force weapon? I can't find anything other than "Nemesis circuitry", which isn't helpful.

Extra anti-Daemon stuff.

That said a force powerfist makes sense to me; call it +10pts based on the price difference between a power weapon and a power fist?

See, I assumed that too, but nothing I can find relates the "nemesis" portion to being specifically anti-daemon. Actually most things refer to the power of the Grey Knight channeled through the weapon being what makes it anti-daemon, but that's just what force weapons are.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
See, I assumed that too, but nothing I can find relates the "nemesis" portion to being specifically anti-daemon. Actually most things refer to the power of the Grey Knight channeled through the weapon being what makes it anti-daemon, but that's just what force weapons are.

Mechanically the difference is the Daemonbane rule (reroll to wound against Daemons when Force is up). Lorewise we don't know enough about the technobabble of psykers and force weapons in the first place to describe them but they're presumably purpose-built for the Grey Knights and somehow more efficient for them to use (which may explain why one WC 1 power can activate ten force weapons at once in a GK unit but can only ever activate one for any other psyker).

Lorewise the only mechanical difference I can find stated is that the power of a nemesis force weapon is directly proportional to the psychic power of the wielder, but I would assume the same for regular force weapons. It's curious. Several nemesis force weapons are described as having iron/silver blades (which is silly), but that wouldn't apply to blunt weapons (hammer, fist, stave) and still doesn't explain what "nemesis circuitry" is or what it does.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
See, I assumed that too, but nothing I can find relates the "nemesis" portion to being specifically anti-daemon. Actually most things refer to the power of the Grey Knight channeled through the weapon being what makes it anti-daemon, but that's just what force weapons are.

Mechanically the difference is the Daemonbane rule (reroll to wound against Daemons when Force is up). Lorewise we don't know enough about the technobabble of psykers and force weapons in the first place to describe them but they're presumably purpose-built for the Grey Knights and somehow more efficient for them to use (which may explain why one WC 1 power can activate ten force weapons at once in a GK unit but can only ever activate one for any other psyker).

Force targets a the psyker and his unit. Any unit with multiple force weapons would have all their force weapons activated. It's just that non GK armies are less likely to have multiple force weapons in a squad.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
explain what "nemesis circuitry" is or what it does.

don't question the 40k universe, heretic!

.... So you want a force... hand.... I think those come stock...

Just to get it out of the way, and because you have these thoughtful posts about planet bowling ball in central Pennsylvania, it's really weird that your librarian is punching anything. Powerfists have motors in the fingers and hands, they don't help with punching.


Yeah, in the Inquisitor rulebook and in Soul Drinker, force weapons are not power weapons. They are arcane devices that happen to be shaped like weapons, and often the same shape as power weapons. It doesn't seem to be like you have a regular power weapon and turn it into a force weapon.

You also have terminator inquisitor/librarian models from Rogue Trader that are armed with a force weapon and a power fist. Like, it has a force rod in one hand and a powerfiat on the other hand.

So it seems to me like they are separate concepts. Like, making a force-power fist is like making a force refrigerator. To the craftsmen it's sort of an unintuitive concept, and also it would have to be built without the refrigeration part, so you would really just have a force pantry. Then, you can't really have a powerfist without the "large mechanical hand and power field" portions of the powerfist, so I think it's kind of stuck.

So I think you should go for it, in your specific case, because really there is probably a space marine out there who has thought of it and gotten it done somehow. I'm just giving a reason why not every librarian everywhere has it as an option. It's kind of a novelty item. It's like those swords that have handguns in them. It's just a coincidence they have the same rules.

Just had a thought - if the 'force hammer' is an option then just model it with a power fist, add fancy details, pay the points for the hammer, and im sure your opponent will be fine with it when he/she/it/they realize it's exactly the same but without the 'concussive' rule.

So how about force chain fist and force lightening claws? These don't sound right to me either.

Evil Party Girl wrote:
So how about force chain fist and force lightening claws? These don't sound right to me either.

Why does a force lightning claw sound sillier than a force thunderhammer or a force stick?