Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think I already have the answer to this question, or at least we've agreed to a house rule on it, but figured I'd ask here as well.

Librarius conclave with 5 librarians. Ezekiel and two others are in a rhino with a command squad. A fourth is on a bike, riding with black knights beside the rhino. A terminator librarian does a DS with a group of knights next to them.

The rule states that one of the librarians:

has access to any psychic powers known by other models from this Formation within 12"

The question, then, are Ezekiel and the other librarian in the rhino within 12" of the librarians next to it?

The four possible conclusions that I came to are:

1) No, not at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that a standard that's in a rhino doesn't give its bonus to units outside the rhino? I'm the only person at our store that uses rhinos actually, and I don't use standards often, so it never came up. But if that's true, would the same apply to Ezekiel?

2) Yes, entirely. The bike or terminator can use any powers that Ezekiel and any librarians in the rhino have, freely. Ezekiel is in the rhino, and it's within 12 of the other librarians.

3) Yes, but only 2. Only two of the librarians in the rhino can share their powers, as there are only two fire points on the rhino (on a side note, if it was just 3 librarians in a rhino could all three cast powers from it?).

4) Yes, as long as it's a witchfire power. As witchfires are the only type of power that can be cast from a transport, you can't transfer any blessings or maledictions to the other librarians.

We almost universally agreed that it was option 2 actually, which kind of surprised me.

Standards in transports DO give their benefits. The thing that does not work that way is the PFG.

So 1) already is debunked.
Also, we can pretty much say that 4) is not the correct answer either - as the sharing is not a shooting attack or anything else, it's solely the positioning that counts here. No difference between a Rhino and a Razorback e.g.

That leaves us with 2) and 3)... While technically Ezekiel is not on the table, I'd find it hard to argue that he is not "there". Examples:
if you have Belial in a LR, you can use his Teleport Homer measuring from the LR's hull.
If you hit an open topped transport with a flamer, the transported unit takes hits.
So you can come to the conclusion the model actually is, for rules, physically present.

So I wouldn't argue against 2) either.

 Thairne wrote:
Standards in transports DO give their benefits. The thing that does not work that way is the PFG.

Because it specifically says it doesn't in the FAQ.

The answer is (2). When you are required to measure to an embarked unit, you measure to the hull of the transport vehicle instead (page 80, under Embarking). Unless there is a specific part of the Conclave rule that says this requires a Fire Point, it does not need one.

*derp*

Yes, as I said. Standards work, the PFG doesn't. Confused me there for a moment.

I now have a way to use divination from the safety of a rhino.... this makes me very happy Dark Angel.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I now have a way to use divination from the safety of a rhino.... this makes me very happy Dark Angel.

Only if you are using a Witchfire.

 Happyjew wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
I now have a way to use divination from the safety of a rhino.... this makes me very happy Dark Angel.

Only if you are using a Witchfire.

I don't mean the passengers casting it. I mean that I can have Ezekiel know 4 divination powers, keep him out of harms way via rhino, and then have someone a bit more durable like a terminator squad cast all of them.

3 Powers. Mindworm counts as his "lvl 3" Power, you only get 2 more plus the primaris

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
I now have a way to use divination from the safety of a rhino.... this makes me very happy Dark Angel.

Only if you are using a Witchfire.

I don't mean the passengers casting it. I mean that I can have Ezekiel know 4 divination powers, keep him out of harms way via rhino, and then have someone a bit more durable like a terminator squad cast all of them.

First, Ezekial cannot know 4 Divination powers (only 3). He is Mastery Level 3, has Mind Worm and then generates 2 powers.
Second, in order for another Psyker to cast those Divination powers he must know them. If Ezekial knows powers A, B, and C but the other Psyker knows X, Y, Z, then if Ezekiel is in a Rhino, A, B, and C cannot be cast.

 Happyjew wrote:
Second, in order for another Psyker to cast those Divination powers he must know them. If Ezekial knows powers A, B, and C but the other Psyker knows X, Y, Z, then if Ezekiel is in a Rhino, A, B, and C cannot be cast.

So you're saying that you think Ezekiel is considered to be off the board then when he's in the rhino, and thus not within 12" of the models outside of it? Why would he counts as being outside of the Conclave range?

 kingbobbito wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Second, in order for another Psyker to cast those Divination powers he must know them. If Ezekial knows powers A, B, and C but the other Psyker knows X, Y, Z, then if Ezekiel is in a Rhino, A, B, and C cannot be cast.

So you're saying that you think Ezekiel is considered to be off the board then when he's in the rhino, and thus not within 12" of the models outside of it? Why would he counts as being outside of the Conclave range?

No, it's more the fact that I forgot that this thread was discussing the Librarius Conclave and that any Psyker from the Conclave can cast a spell known to a model from the Conclave.