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No seriously, if GW were to release animated digital models, digitial terrain, digital battelfields and a digital game system to run these on I would sell a kidney to pay for it. If they don't do it someone else will.

Wow, I had not heard of "hololens" until now - that is very cool!

http://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us

That definitely has a lot of gaming applications, once the technology is more mature.

Yeap. Pretty much shut up and take mah munny!


Seriously i've known about holographic innovations for a while, but it looks like the tech has way leap frogged anything i've read about for a long time.

One downside: the visor is a little goofy.


Lots of applications though, gaming and non gaming. Looking forward to when this becomes more of a reality.

You guys realise that you can do all of this already?

How are those new fangled thingy majobs called again... hmmm... Oh, yes! Computer and console games!

AR apps on phone have a lot of this already.
MS's version does seem to do more though.

How much of it won't make it to the live version?
You think Vassal might get an overhaul?

Maybe I'm an old Grognard, but I like wargaming because it doesn't involve a computer.

I'd totally be into holographic/VR gaming, but leave my lead army men alone.

PhantomViper wrote:
You guys realise that you can do all of this already?

How are those new fangled thingy majobs called again... hmmm... Oh, yes! Computer and console games!

What do those have to do with AR? Unless you're talking about Nintendo 3ds or PS Vita, the only two systems I know of that can do AR. None of them are even close to doing something like what the OP is suggesting though.

Mymearan wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:
You guys realise that you can do all of this already?

How are those new fangled thingy majobs called again... hmmm... Oh, yes! Computer and console games!

What do those have to do with AR? Unless you're talking about Nintendo 3ds or PS Vita, the only two systems I know of that can do AR. None of them are even close to doing something like what the OP is suggesting though.

And what does AR brings to miniature wargaming that a normal computer or console game doesn't?

PhantomViper wrote:

And what does AR brings to miniature wargaming that a normal computer or console game doesn't?

AR would compliment miniature games in a way computers would be to clunky for. I can use my computer or tablet to thumb though the e version of the rulebook to find some stats, or with AR, just look at the model and get a HUD readout of all the stats. It could do other neat things for me like measure ranges and compute AOE and LOS.

It could effectively take all the squishy parts of the game that are subjective (and usually gamed by TFG's) and make them concrete. And even if you just did your AR though a phone or tablet, the weight and ergonomics would lend to something you where only occasionally using to augment the game as oppose to something always on.

I think, AR when it becomes wearable(in a way that doesn't make you look like a complete nerd) is going to be like the phone->smart phone or laptop->tablet transitions. You at first think that you don't need it. Then you have it and you wonder how you lived without it.

PhantomViper wrote:
You guys realise that you can do all of this already?

How are those new fangled thingy majobs called again... hmmm... Oh, yes! Computer and console games!

Pfff! Those things are just fads! Like Pokemon and the Internet....

The Auld Grump

 CaulynDarr wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

And what does AR brings to miniature wargaming that a normal computer or console game doesn't?

AR would compliment miniature games in a way computers would be to clunky for. I can use my computer or tablet to thumb though the e version of the rulebook to find some stats, or with AR, just look at the model and get a HUD readout of all the stats. It could do other neat things for me like measure ranges and compute AOE and LOS.

It could effectively take all the squishy parts of the game that are subjective (and usually gamed by TFG's) and make them concrete. And even if you just did your AR though a phone or tablet, the weight and ergonomics would lend to something you where only occasionally using to augment the game as oppose to something always on.

I think, AR when it becomes wearable(in a way that doesn't make you look like a complete nerd) is going to be like the phone->smart phone or laptop->tablet transitions. You at first think that you don't need it. Then you have it and you wonder how you lived without it.

First, that is not what the OP was talking about, he was talking about replacing all models and terrain for virtual representations.

Second, like you say so yourself, you theoretically can already do all of the AR things that you talk about using a tablet or a phone. The fact that you now have to wear glasses to make it work doesn't change much.

Third, I have absolutely no question that this technology, if done correctly, will alter the way that we live in much the same way that smartphones did. I just have severe doubts that it will have any practical applications when it comes to miniature wargaming.

PhantomViper wrote:


Second, like you say so yourself, you theoretically can already do all of the AR things that you talk about using a tablet or a phone. The fact that you now have to wear glasses to make it work doesn't change much.

Third, I have absolutely no question that this technology, if done correctly, will alter the way that we live in much the same way that smartphones did. I just have severe doubts that it will have any practical applications when it comes to miniature wargaming.

In how glasses would be better than a tablet for AR: say I'm using a tablet with AR to measure distance between two models. That really doesn't save much energy from pulling out a tape measure and doing it the old fashioned way 95% of the time. On those 8 foot cross table shots, maybe, not for the normal stuff. But with the overlay fixed in your field of view you save the effort. That little bit makes a difference. Especially if your are already using the technology in other places in your life.

Another thing having the glasses over a tablet provides is it allows you to keep both hands free. That way you can get an active overlay of a model and it's maximum movement distance and have your arms free to move it. It would be pretty awkward to hold a tablet/phone up and move a model simultaneously since you loose the use of an arm to balance yourself when reaching across a table.

Another benefit of AR would allow people to play a miniature game with each other form two different locations. AR would effectively merge in the other guys models and table. It could even give you the ability to play single player by merging in an AI opponent. You get all the benefits of a multiplayer computer game but get to keep all the tabletop hobby aspects.

In the end it allows you to slice up the medium and experience just the parts you enjoy. Don't like painting and building models, cool, just use a virtual army. Want to try out a unit, but don't have it purchased or built yet, sub in a few virtual units with the rest of your army. Like the social aspects, play together at the store or pub. Best gaming buddy moved across the country, cool, you can still throw down you marines against his orks.

 CaulynDarr wrote:


Another thing having the glasses over a tablet provides is it allows you to keep both hands free. That way you can get an active overlay of a model and it's maximum movement distance and have your arms free to move it. It would be pretty awkward to hold a tablet/phone up and move a model simultaneously since you loose the use of an arm to balance yourself when reaching across a table.

Would it be more or less awkward than trying to move your models without moving your head? Because the moment that your head moved, that overlay would be completely inacurate.

 CaulynDarr wrote:

Another benefit of AR would allow people to play a miniature game with each other form two different locations. AR would effectively merge in the other guys models and table. It could even give you the ability to play single player by merging in an AI opponent. You get all the benefits of a multiplayer computer game but get to keep all the tabletop hobby aspects.

In the end it allows you to slice up the medium and experience just the parts you enjoy. Don't like painting and building models, cool, just use a virtual army. Want to try out a unit, but don't have it purchased or built yet, sub in a few virtual units with the rest of your army. Like the social aspects, play together at the store or pub. Best gaming buddy moved across the country, cool, you can still throw down you marines against his orks.

You might even be right in all of this, but everything that you've said, to me, just removes the parts of the miniature wargaming hobby that make it distinct. No more face to face social interaction, no more physical models actually present on the table.

Why am I not just playing a normal computer game at this point?

Unfortunately its Microsoft... they have something that's innovative now but said the earliest we'll ever see it is 2 years out. In that much time someone else will develop something better and bring it to market.

I like the concept you guys are going with here! What about having the holo-lens "enhance" the normal 40k we all know and love by adding in visual effects throughout the game. For example, when you are wearing the lens, you roll the To Hit and then To wound Dice for your minis then the lens computes the number on the upward die faces and visually reward you and the opponent with a display of digital bolter/lasgun/whatever shots across the board.

There must be a way to program the lens to read dice and in turn have an app/program with all the 40k BS/to hit formulas coded. So then you just play the game is normal, select a unit, roll the dice and watch the ensuing carnage happen.

What other cool ideas would you want to add "visually" to your table top games?


PS: 1st post
PSS: Take my money!

While the tech holds alot of promise, I think this image created on Kotaku for a humorous contest might better illustrate the perils (thousand words and all)...



http://kotaku.com/kotaku-shop-contest-behind-microsofts-holographic-wall-1683100081

 warboss wrote:
While the tech holds alot of promise, I think this image created on Kotaku for a humorous contest might better illustrate the perils (thousand words and all)...



http://kotaku.com/kotaku-shop-contest-behind-microsofts-holographic-wall-1683100081

+1 ...


and the obligatory OHHHH SNAPPP SON

Its also Microsoft, who are notorious with coming up with a good idea, hyping it up, and then dropping it without a word or updates within a year.

I'm still bitter about the Zune HD, that thing was really good and all it would've taken was a few updates to keep it relevant. Not to mention how they handled the Kinect.

If this does come out, give it a while and make sure they're going to support the stupid thing for good. Because its highly likely Microsoft will hype it up a bit, release it, and then completely stop caring within 6 months

It is still premature to be taking about this being accessible for gaming.

At UCLA, we use AR for a lot of different projects, and it is expensive, and not very portable.

It is nearly impossible to use it someplace that has not had the VR/AR objects prepared specifically for use in that location.

Having said that.

We have now reached an inflection point, where it will start getting rapidly less expensive.

The BIGGEST drawback is the interface, which is going to take a while to get good enough that you won't need pretty bulky goggles.

By 2020, it should be roughly about as expensive as a really expensive smart phone, or tablet (I.e. Roughly $1,000 for a set).

But companies are already developing the graphics technology to be ready for the hardware.

MB

 Haight wrote:
Yeap. Pretty much shut up and take mah munny!

Any specific Munny?

It is one of those toys which will come eventually - and I don't think Microsoft thinks that means next year - but it is mainly for the news story. Several years ago, they had available a "tablet" that you could effectively roll up like a sheet of paper. Eventually - just not yet.

Beyond just having the capability to do it - you also need the manufacturing capability to produce it cheaply. Those things move a bit slower than the actual engineering behind the machines and to get a prototype built - often results in hundreds which are not quite up to snuff.

Even then though - not in my miniatures. I game with them to unplug. If I want to game with my computer, there are more efficient ways of doing that.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
It is one of those toys which will come eventually - and I don't think Microsoft thinks that means next year - but it is mainly for the news story. Several years ago, they had available a "tablet" that you could effectively roll up like a sheet of paper. Eventually - just not yet.

Beyond just having the capability to do it - you also need the manufacturing capability to produce it cheaply. Those things move a bit slower than the actual engineering behind the machines and to get a prototype built - often results in hundreds which are not quite up to snuff.

Even then though - not in my miniatures. I game with them to unplug. If I want to game with my computer, there are more efficient ways of doing that.

One of the labs at UCLA I have worked in was involved with developing the OLED technology that is used in flexible displays.

As I said in my previous post, the technology is still very premature (the same sort of Biotech used in the OLED is being used to develop lighter lenses that won't need bulky displays like the Microsoft AR Goggles - and that technology is a necessary component of making these accessible and scalable).

Most "Wow!tech" is like that... About five years before it is really viable.

MB

PhantomViper wrote:

First, that is not what the OP was talking about, he was talking about replacing all models and terrain for virtual representations.

That in itself would be pretty cool, but I see that as an advance in video gaming, not table top gaming. Can you imagine playing Total War on a 3D table, being able to gesture units around? That would be amazing. I played an arcade game in Japan that was kind of like that with cards; your units are RFID cards you move round a table, and they follow the actions on a screen.