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Thought this would be more appropriate as not everyone is reduced to spraying wildly the second someone charges them or a jet flies over.

This would mean characters like space marine captains who are BS 5 would be reduced to BS 2 and hit with snap shots on 5's while anything less would still be hitting on 1's like normal. Archon's who have naturally very quick reactions would reduce their BS7 to BS4 hitting with snapshots on 3's.

This would better reflect the skill of these characters and i don't think it would be too overpowered.

Cypher firing snapshots at BS7 and Illic Nightspear firing snapshots at BS6 could be interesting but they are the best shots in the galaxy with their weapons of choice and the weapons they use aren't that effective in snap shot situations anyway.

Or what about 1/2 your BS, rounding down?

Would you permit blasts and templates to be fired as snap shots?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Or what about 1/2 your BS, rounding down?

This would mean Space Marines would still be hitting at BS2 and as good as they are it might be a bit OP. You could say half BS minus 1 which would keep it the same for the lower BS units but effect higher BS units more fairly.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Would you permit blasts and templates to be fired as snap shots?

Templates have wall of death or whatever so they're pretty good already, blasts i'd keep the same and say no to.

There is one major problem with this type of change.

40k 7th Edition is already heavily weighted in favor of the shooting game. Armies with high ballistic skills have some pretty large advantages over armies that do not.

The effect of this change would be to tip the scales even further in that direction. Armies with high ballistic skills would have even GREATER advantages over armies that don't. Psychic powers that force snap-shots such as Invisibility would be less useful. If your enemy regrouped from a morale save they would be able to then shoot you with greater efficiency. Special abilities that force snap-shots would be less effective. It would definitely hurt assault armies and units.

Typically the stereotype for most 40k units is that shooty units are weak in assault, and assault units are weak against shooting. If you make this change you tip the balance much more against assaults. The impact is TWO-FOLD. First, the shooting unit's offense is increased. When firing overwatch, it will cause more casualties in the enemy. Secondly, the shooting unit's defense is increased as well by causing more casualties in the enemy. The enemy is more likely to FAIL to charge in assault, and also the enemy will have less models to attack with.

I'd argue that armies with high ballistic skills already have a distinct advantage in 40k. One of the GOOD things about Snap Shots is that they are the great equalizer. All armies fire them the same.

I would say if you want to do something like this, instead I would add it as a Special Rule that could be applied to certain weapons. For example:

Shoot from the Hip (5): When firing snap-shots, this weapon always hits on a result of 5+.

You could give this special rule to some weapons wielded by special characters, or perhaps snipers or other Elites.

However, one thing I WOULD change about snap shots is Blast weapons. It is utterly stupid that you cannot fire a Blast weapon as a snap-shot. If you have a Space Marine with a missile launcher, he can fire a Krak missile as a snap shot, but for some reason, he can't do the same thing with a Frag missile? From the space marine's perspective, it takes the same time to load and fire the missile, and if anything a Frag missile would be EASIER to hit something as a snap shot.

The simple solution to blast weapons fired as Snap Shots is that they never hit. They always deviate. When you roll a deviation die, the "Hit" indicator result still has a small arrow on it indicating a direction. So you just follow that arrow instead of the "hit" result. And you fire at BS1, so you deviate almost the full amount.

I think this could be done pretty easily for most weapons. Fliers would require an extra rule indicating that blast weapons still cannot be fired at them. There are too many blast weapons that from a fluff perspective shouldn't be able to target a flier, for example most Barrage and Ordinance weapons, and some psychic powers.

Murrdox wrote:



However, one thing I WOULD change about snap shots is Blast weapons. It is utterly stupid that you cannot fire a Blast weapon as a snap-shot. If you have a Space Marine with a missile launcher, he can fire a Krak missile as a snap shot, but for some reason, he can't do the same thing with a Frag missile? From the space marine's perspective, it takes the same time to load and fire the missile, and if anything a Frag missile would be EASIER to hit something as a snap shot.

The simple solution to blast weapons fired as Snap Shots is that they never hit. They always deviate. When you roll a deviation die, the "Hit" indicator result still has a small arrow on it indicating a direction. So you just follow that arrow instead of the "hit" result. And you fire at BS1, so you deviate almost the full amount.

I think this could be done pretty easily for most weapons. Fliers would require an extra rule indicating that blast weapons still cannot be fired at them. There are too many blast weapons that from a fluff perspective shouldn't be able to target a flier, for example most Barrage and Ordinance weapons, and some psychic powers.

Speaking of with, why in the world can't template weapons be snap shotted on vechs? This has bugged the gak out of me for a while. The fluff says the whole benifit of template weapons is that you don't have to aim and they automatically hit. So it seems like a no duh that they should be able to snap shotted.

Not just blasts - templates should be able to snap shot against non flying targets. If you must, reduce st by 1 to represent them spraying it around.

The simple solution to blast weapons fired as Snap Shots is that they never hit. They always deviate. When you roll a deviation die, the "Hit" indicator result still has a small arrow on it indicating a direction. So you just follow that arrow instead of the "hit" result. And you fire at BS1, so you deviate almost the full amount.

This would fix the main problem with invisibility, too, which is that it's absolutely ridiculous to not e able to fire blast weapons at an invisible unit. I mean, who on earth is going to choice the precision weapon that has to be sighted on bgthe target over the big explosion covering a large area when shooting at a unit they can't see?

Murrdox wrote:
There is one major problem with this type of change.

40k 7th Edition is already heavily weighted in favor of the shooting game. Armies with high ballistic skills have some pretty large advantages over armies that do not.

The effect of this change would be to tip the scales even further in that direction. Armies with high ballistic skills would have even GREATER advantages over armies that don't. Psychic powers that force snap-shots such as Invisibility would be less useful. If your enemy regrouped from a morale save they would be able to then shoot you with greater efficiency. Special abilities that force snap-shots would be less effective. It would definitely hurt assault armies and units.

Typically the stereotype for most 40k units is that shooty units are weak in assault, and assault units are weak against shooting. If you make this change you tip the balance much more against assaults. The impact is TWO-FOLD. First, the shooting unit's offense is increased. When firing overwatch, it will cause more casualties in the enemy. Secondly, the shooting unit's defense is increased as well by causing more casualties in the enemy. The enemy is more likely to FAIL to charge in assault, and also the enemy will have less models to attack with.

I'd argue that armies with high ballistic skills already have a distinct advantage in 40k. One of the GOOD things about Snap Shots is that they are the great equalizer. All armies fire them the same.

I would say if you want to do something like this, instead I would add it as a Special Rule that could be applied to certain weapons. For example:

Shoot from the Hip (5): When firing snap-shots, this weapon always hits on a result of 5+.

You could give this special rule to some weapons wielded by special characters, or perhaps snipers or other Elites.

However, one thing I WOULD change about snap shots is Blast weapons. It is utterly stupid that you cannot fire a Blast weapon as a snap-shot. If you have a Space Marine with a missile launcher, he can fire a Krak missile as a snap shot, but for some reason, he can't do the same thing with a Frag missile? From the space marine's perspective, it takes the same time to load and fire the missile, and if anything a Frag missile would be EASIER to hit something as a snap shot.

The simple solution to blast weapons fired as Snap Shots is that they never hit. They always deviate. When you roll a deviation die, the "Hit" indicator result still has a small arrow on it indicating a direction. So you just follow that arrow instead of the "hit" result. And you fire at BS1, so you deviate almost the full amount.

I think this could be done pretty easily for most weapons. Fliers would require an extra rule indicating that blast weapons still cannot be fired at them. There are too many blast weapons that from a fluff perspective shouldn't be able to target a flier, for example most Barrage and Ordinance weapons, and some psychic powers.

Can you give some examples where higher ballistic skill armies would have an advantage cause i think i covered them with my rules suggestions.

whether its -3 BS or Half BS -1 most standard issue troops would be reduced to BS1, its just characters with BS5+ who would be an exception and I personally believe they deserve it.

Murrdox wrote:

I think this could be done pretty easily for most weapons. Fliers would require an extra rule indicating that blast weapons still cannot be fired at them. There are too many blast weapons that from a fluff perspective shouldn't be able to target a flier, for example most Barrage and Ordinance weapons, and some psychic powers.

Part of the flyer rules is that you cannot hit them with blast or template weapons while they are zooming. FMCs though would need that rule added... as well as a rule that prevents them from gaining cover from terrain while swooping

That would be cool ... how about a rule for an assault based army that would not allow you to overwatch? I would get behind something like that.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
That would be cool ... how about a rule for an assault based army that would not allow you to overwatch? I would get behind something like that.

Chaos Space Marines have dirge casters, but that's the only thing I've ever heard of that can prevent overwatch.