Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just a thought: At least from my perspective, Flyers have a horribly warping impact on both the game meta, and on list building considerations in general.

So from that starting opinion, I noticed that skimmers count as both a ground and air target for purposes of shooting at them. Bearing that extra vulnerability in mind, it seems only fair to allow them to take advantage of their hovering nature to shoot back, picking to shoot at the ground or the sky each turn much as flyers can. Most armies have at least some form of skimmer, so it would be pretty handy in diversifying the number of units who can cope with flyers by means other than only being able to effectively aim at them, ignoring them or being a flyer themselves.

Any good as a concept?

Roll back to 5e and make the Flyers Fast Skimmers. You'd need to make some modifications to the more lightly-armoured Flyers (Valkyries and Stormravens would be fine, but the Eldar Flyers would need something to prevent them from being more tissue paper than they already are).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Roll back to 5e and make the Flyers Fast Skimmers. You'd need to make some modifications to the more lightly-armoured Flyers (Valkyries and Stormravens would be fine, but the Eldar Flyers would need something to prevent them from being more tissue paper than they already are).

Yeah, I'd be happier with that option.

And bring back the interceptor interaction, which was a sweeping nerf to multiple sources at once to remove. Most units with that interaction were balanced around them.

The first post suggestion is just a random idea I had for patching over the damage a touch.

sounds good in theory, but then serpent spam would become even more unfair. Also, what about tyranids, deamons, sisters of battle, grey knights, and astra militarum. none of these factions have any skimmers. a couple have flyers, but they would never be able to take them if their storm raven or hive tyrant can now be one shotted by a landspeeder or piranha. It makes the best armies even better and punishes the ones who are already struggling in the meta.

Serpents would then go from crazy insane to uber crazy insane.
When the strongest build in the game is a spam of a skimmer with st6/7 shots usually in double figures, all twinlinked and the multiple st7 shots ignoring cover, and therefore ignoring jink... giving this build an even bigger advantage (basically each serp auto killing a flyer a turn), you are just asking to destroy any competitive game which involves eldar vs anyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bringing back interceptor as enabling ground fire is a good idea however.

Rules changes can't happen in a vacuum. Apply any of the many nerfs to the serpent shield floating around on Dakka (one use, force a pinning test instead of actually shooting, can't jink after firing, 12" range, take away ignores cover...) and the silliness fades.

changemod wrote:
Just a thought: At least from my perspective, Flyers have a horribly warping impact on both the game meta, and on list building considerations in general.

So from that starting opinion, I noticed that skimmers count as both a ground and air target for purposes of shooting at them. Bearing that extra vulnerability in mind, it seems only fair to allow them to take advantage of their hovering nature to shoot back, picking to shoot at the ground or the sky each turn much as flyers can. Most armies have at least some form of skimmer, so it would be pretty handy in diversifying the number of units who can cope with flyers by means other than only being able to effectively aim at them, ignoring them or being a flyer themselves.

Any good as a concept?

I agree, skimmers suffer of this extra vulnerability without a reason.

I think skimmer moving fast (more than 6') shuld have a bonus, like be hitted only at 5+.

Unfortunatly Wave Serpent shouldnt be further powered up. Maybe a solution could be gives that bonus only to non-tank skimmers.

omg! Why dont they just take away the serpent shield upgrade? It is the only thing that makes them over powered.