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So after some thought I decided to expand my CSM rather than start a new army. At the moment FW units are kind of out of the picture since not many people want to play with them. I currently have a large army and tons of infantry, but little armor. My armor consists of 5-6 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider, 2 Defilers, 3 DV Helbrutes, 1 Helbrute (Autocannon/Missile Launcher), 1 Helbrute (Lascannon/Missile Launcher), and 3 Heldrakes. I was thinking Maulerfiends would be the best start or more Helbrutes to make use of the Helbrute dataslate. Any thoughts?

The Helbrute murder pack is pretty great. It becomes even better with access to invisibility on it.

3 Maulerfiends is actually a very strong list if used well. Make sure you bring some support.

Tri-las predators are not bad either. They are one of the better sources of long range anti-tank in the CSM codex. If you think you might get forgeworld later though I would recommend not to get this as forgeworld has many units with similar roles but that are much better both in use and looks. The predator is really a best of bad as the CSM codex is pathetic at long range anti-tank.

Was Murder Pack dataslate the one where you could have a squad of 5 Helbrutes and 1 of them functions as the 'aspiring champion'?

I always felt Havocs or Obliterators were the better choices for long range anti tank, but Tri-Las preds aren't bad either.

What about Vindicators?

Forgefiends, I thought about but it seems like they need more support.

Yep, murder pack is 5 helbrutes in a unit. This unit makes them very effective as you can rotate which ones take damage and buff them all with a single buff.

Havoks are decent dakka per point but super fragile. They even lack the chapter tactics and wargear options that can make them decent in the loyalists lists. Oblits are not bad but they are not effective at long range (they can only use lascannons for 1 of every 2 turns) and they are too costly per lascannon or plasma cannon shot to every be truly effective long range anti tank. Their ability to use a wide variety of medium and short range firepower, their toughness, decent melee ability, and ability to still contribute even when out of position is what makes them good. Tri-Las predators when stuck in ruins in the corner are more durable than either option with a bit worse dakka per point as havoks.

Vindicators are just overpriced and too tactically inflexible to be anything but meh. If you like them don't let that stop you but they will always underperform. The combination of weak side and rear armour, short range weapon, non fast vehicle, and a relatively high pts cost just kill my love of these.

Forgefiends biggest support is taking 2-3 of them. Other than that you just need some units to help you control the board and to make sure the rest of your army is aggressive enough to benefit from the forgefiends distracting your opponent. 1 forgefiend is a waste, 2 is a distraction, and 3 is a whole lot of damage.

These are all my experiences and opinions BTW so don't take them as law or anything.

I had the thought of using 3 Forgefiends/3 Predators/Vindicators for target saturation but, hull points have always turned me off to relying too much on armor.

Would you say the tri Plasma or tri Hades Autocannon set up is better for the Forgefiends?

I swear by maulerfiends. Two maulerfiends are pretty much a staple in most of my chaos lists, for their points they are pretty amazing, just make sure your sending them at the correct targets. I personally prefer the lasher tenderals.

Mayhem pack (the DS one) will work well. You're 3 MM Hellbrutes from DV to go with.
1/3 of a chance each turn that they won't move... but you get to fire 6!! multi melta shots in recompense.
I'm a big fan of assault weapon havocs in rhinos, 4+combi of melta, plasma or flamers is pretty sweet. Especially when backed with 3 infiltrating chosen squads (cypher). It could possibly be due to owning a stupid amount of assault weapons across all my CSMs. You have more than enough rhinos to do a rhino rush supported by infiltrating chosen.

 l0k1 wrote:
I had the thought of using 3 Forgefiends/3 Predators/Vindicators for target saturation but, hull points have always turned me off to relying too much on armor.

Would you say the tri Plasma or tri Hades Autocannon set up is better for the Forgefiends?

I always thought Forgefiend hades autocannon with plasma "mouth" an effective build. They're 200 points for AV12 and HP3 though.

As above, I'd go with dual Hades with the "plasmaw" I've had the most bang for my buck which only got better with a Warpsmith tagging along

I find that the mayhem pack packs the most punch when used with an army that climaxes turn two or three, like a list centered around transports (think 2 land raiders with berzerkers and kharn, 4 or 5 rhinos of chosen and abaddon, stuff that is looking to roll up and assault/rapid fire after a turn or two of movement, chaos spawn, raptors, warp talons, maulerfiends, all the fast stuff in our dex)
The idea here is that by the time you can deal damage, they should have come in from reserves at that moment.

The Murder Pack is obviously about armor saturation. It is best to equip these guys with ranged weapons (X + Missile Launcher) since you can choose their crazed result, you have a lot of control over them. Take 3X heavy support slots and these guys and you're pretty much set. For troops either go cheap with 2X10 cultists or add to the saturation with two squads of CSM in rhinos. For extra punch, have Be'lakor fly around putting invisibility on the murder pack.

Maulerfiends rock at killing enemy armor fast for only 125 points. Taking two or three is not a bad idea.

Although MCs are much worse at killing walkers now, keep in mind that most MCs will have a way higher WS than our walkers, so we will be hitting them on 5+s ususally. Don't expect to take one down quickly without 2 or 3 walkers.