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I can't decide what my 10 man Vanguard Vet squad in a Stormraven should be running, I was thinking 3 PWs and 2 Storm Shields, I want to keep 'em cheap and cheerful.

Any suggestions?

More stormshields. When I was using BA as Ravenguard, I liked 4 Stormshields.

I'm interested in this too. I guess you could run a 10 man squad with JP with 3-4 SS, 1-2 with Power axes and a guy with Power sword. Maybe a TH

In a squad of ten, make sure there's 15 AP3 strikes on the charge and I'd say two Melta Bombs. Defensively, I actually don't like shields because it reduces my Attacks. Psychic buffs should give a decent chance at an invulnerable save and I'd stick with that.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
In a squad of ten, make sure there's 15 AP3 strikes on the charge and I'd say two Melta Bombs. Defensively, I actually don't like shields because it reduces my Attacks. Psychic buffs should give a decent chance at an invulnerable save and I'd stick with that.

But if you stick the SS with the chainsword guys you don't lose any significant attack. A libby or a chaplain is a fine addition to VVs.
Does it make sense to run a 5 man squad of VVs?

If you stick the Shield on a Chainsword guy you're using an ablative wound to soak up damage at 24 points a pop AND that's only if the thing shooting is AP3- since otherwise the armor save is taking dominance. I don't come across enough Defilers and Vindicators to really have to deal with AP3 dealing enough damage to cut through the first few ranks and break against Invuls.

If you have no points for more, sure. If you can avoid it in any way, shape or form, no. The lack of Fearless can get painful at a very bad time in the game and they are still only as survivable as Marines. Unless we're talking Blood Angels and you're adding a Sanguinary Priest for FNP. But without that, no, I'd never take anything less than 7 in my Ultramarines or other chapters and that's not including the buff characters.

I'm thinking 3 SSs, 3 PWs and maybe a thunder hammer plus 2 MBs. Comes to 330 pts. Bit expensive but they will hit hard.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
In a squad of ten, make sure there's 15 AP3 strikes on the charge and I'd say two Melta Bombs. Defensively, I actually don't like shields because it reduces my Attacks. Psychic buffs should give a decent chance at an invulnerable save and I'd stick with that.

THe shield guys are expected to die. Because they are the shield guys. Getting 3++ vs pie plate of doom is well worth a few less attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hoyt wrote:
I'm thinking 3 SSs, 3 PWs and maybe a thunder hammer plus 2 MBs. Comes to 330 pts. Bit expensive but they will hit hard.

Remember that against many, many lists you don't need to hit hard. You need to get there.

I elected to go Relic Blade + Storm Shield, 2×(Chainsword + Storm Shield), and 2×(Llightning Claw×2) for my Angel's Wrath formation Vanguard Vets.

I like chosen with a hidden power fist + meltas. I find this cheapo approach more effective than loading on special gear. VV can't have meltas or marks but still a couple of PF and SS is what you need. Don't think power weapons are that useful when you have lots of attacks anywayz. If you want to go cheaper, you can go with power axes and a couple melta bombz.

for the Archangels Sanguine wing, would you guys add storm shields into the units?

So far I have the 2 units of 10x Vanguards with 6 power swords and 4 power axes in each unit. I'm wondering if I should put in a couple storm shields since you save about 400 points in the formation.

My VVs will be assaulting out of a Stormraven so I'm not sure I'll bother with the SSs. So a couple of power axes and meltabombs would be sufficient?

 Hoyt wrote:
My VVs will be assaulting out of a Stormraven so I'm not sure I'll bother with the SSs. So a couple of power axes and meltabombs would be sufficient?

Yeah, I'd say so.

My current list still has 22 points left over that I can spend on my Vanguard Vets, any ideas? They're a 10 man squad with 3 Power axes and 2 have meltabombs.

 akwing00 wrote:
for the Archangels Sanguine wing, would you guys add storm shields into the units?

So far I have the 2 units of 10x Vanguards with 6 power swords and 4 power axes in each unit. I'm wondering if I should put in a couple storm shields since you save about 400 points in the formation.

I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

 DarthOvious wrote:
I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

That's one way to look at it. Vanguards are basically just there for formations (e.g., sanguine wing) or for using Storm Shields. Anything else can be done better by Death Company.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

That's one way to look at it. Vanguards are basically just there for formations (e.g., sanguine wing) or for using Storm Shields. Anything else can be done better by Death Company.

certainly when it comes to Blood Angels. Space Marine players wish they could get Death Company.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

That's one way to look at it. Vanguards are basically just there for formations (e.g., sanguine wing) or for using Storm Shields. Anything else can be done better by Death Company.

certainly when it comes to Blood Angels. Space Marine players wish they could get Death Company.

if I'm using the sanguine wing formation, how many SS would you recommend. I'm thinking 4, to allow 2 in each squad of 5 if they combat squad. I'm not sure, I ask cause I'm in the process of building mine soon, and I'd like everything to be WYSIWYG

 akwing00 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

That's one way to look at it. Vanguards are basically just there for formations (e.g., sanguine wing) or for using Storm Shields. Anything else can be done better by Death Company.

certainly when it comes to Blood Angels. Space Marine players wish they could get Death Company.

if I'm using the sanguine wing formation, how many SS would you recommend. I'm thinking 4, to allow 2 in each squad of 5 if they combat squad. I'm not sure, I ask cause I'm in the process of building mine soon, and I'd like everything to be WYSIWYG

I've heard that 4 is a good number for ten men. Martel suggests it above and I've also read it on BnC. I've still to make up mine because I'm going to do the same thing at some point. Already have the sternguard with the combi-meltas so I just need to make up the Vanguard with power weapons and storm shields. For power weapons I'm going to use Grey Knights since I already do them and I have some spare parts about for them.

I've heard that 4 is a good number for ten men. Martel suggests it above and I've also read it on BnC. I've still to make up mine because I'm going to do the same thing at some point. Already have the sternguard with the combi-meltas so I just need to make up the Vanguard with power weapons and storm shields. For power weapons I'm going to use Grey Knights since I already do them and I have some spare parts about for them.

Plus the GK helmets looks fabulous!

 mathaius90 wrote:

I've heard that 4 is a good number for ten men. Martel suggests it above and I've also read it on BnC. I've still to make up mine because I'm going to do the same thing at some point. Already have the sternguard with the combi-meltas so I just need to make up the Vanguard with power weapons and storm shields. For power weapons I'm going to use Grey Knights since I already do them and I have some spare parts about for them.

Plus the GK helmets looks fabulous!

I'm not putting them on my Vanguard though. I probably used them when making up my GK's anyway.

 akwing00 wrote:
if I'm using the sanguine wing formation, how many SS would you recommend. I'm thinking 4, to allow 2 in each squad of 5 if they combat squad. I'm not sure, I ask cause I'm in the process of building mine soon, and I'd like everything to be WYSIWYG

I only ever give a SS to the Sgt, who can use it to tank in challenges against enemy characters with AP3 weapons (shielding the rest of the squad in the process). I think of Sanguine Wing more of a cost saving formation than anything else, so I'm not a fan of giving too many guys extra equipment beyond the free power weapon. If you want to use your vanguards as a dedicated monster-hunting or anti-TEQ squad, then Storm Shields are going to be a huge boost for survivability. But I don't think they excel at that role - better to use them leafblowers against enemy infantry. In particular, they're really good against other MEQ - a 5 man Vanguard combat squad with power weapons can reliably kill half of a 10 man tac squad per assault phase, and will rarely take more than a single casualty in return. Death Company and Sanguinary Guard can fill that role, of course... but for about 150% the cost of Sanguine Wing Vanguards to kill the same number of marines-per-turn. Giving them Storm Shields alleviates their main flaw (fragility), but at the cost of their main strength (cheapness). So I would keep them cheap, and try to alleviate their fragility by abusing their jump packs and LOS terrain.

One thing I'll throw out there: maybe consider some hand flamers or infernus pistols. You must deep strike them, so you're going to be sitting around doing nothing on turn 2. Maybe try to burn some infantry, or pop a tank?

DarthOvious wrote:

 akwing00 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
I would like to add that adding Storm Shields is a good idea. It's the one thing that VV's get over the other choices in the BA codex. No point in Blood Angel players taking VV's without SS since we get Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. Command Squads can have SS as well but they are only 5 man strong, but then again they do have built in FNP.

That's one way to look at it. Vanguards are basically just there for formations (e.g., sanguine wing) or for using Storm Shields. Anything else can be done better by Death Company.

certainly when it comes to Blood Angels. Space Marine players wish they could get Death Company.

if I'm using the sanguine wing formation, how many SS would you recommend. I'm thinking 4, to allow 2 in each squad of 5 if they combat squad. I'm not sure, I ask cause I'm in the process of building mine soon, and I'd like everything to be WYSIWYG

I've heard that 4 is a good number for ten men. Martel suggests it above and I've also read it on BnC. I've still to make up mine because I'm going to do the same thing at some point. Already have the sternguard with the combi-meltas so I just need to make up the Vanguard with power weapons and storm shields. For power weapons I'm going to use Grey Knights since I already do them and I have some spare parts about for them.

DanielBeaver wrote:

 akwing00 wrote:
if I'm using the sanguine wing formation, how many SS would you recommend. I'm thinking 4, to allow 2 in each squad of 5 if they combat squad. I'm not sure, I ask cause I'm in the process of building mine soon, and I'd like everything to be WYSIWYG

I only ever give a SS to the Sgt, who can use it to tank in challenges against enemy characters with AP3 weapons (shielding the rest of the squad in the process). I think of Sanguine Wing more of a cost saving formation than anything else, so I'm not a fan of giving too many guys extra equipment beyond the free power weapon. If you want to use your vanguards as a dedicated monster-hunting or anti-TEQ squad, then Storm Shields are going to be a huge boost for survivability. But I don't think they excel at that role - better to use them leafblowers against enemy infantry. In particular, they're really good against other MEQ - a 5 man Vanguard combat squad with power weapons can reliably kill half of a 10 man tac squad per assault phase, and will rarely take more than a single casualty in return. Death Company and Sanguinary Guard can fill that role, of course... but for about 150% the cost of Sanguine Wing Vanguards to kill the same number of marines-per-turn. Giving them Storm Shields alleviates their main flaw (fragility), but at the cost of their main strength (cheapness). So I would keep them cheap, and try to alleviate their fragility by abusing their jump packs and LOS terrain.

One thing I'll throw out there: maybe consider some hand flamers or infernus pistols. You must deep strike them, so you're going to be sitting around doing nothing on turn 2. Maybe try to burn some infantry, or pop a tank?

Thanks for the input guys, I'll definitely give it some thought before final assembly, or may just end up getting a few more kits just to try out both.

Magnets are a good idea for what to equip them with. If you are fielding them in the formation, you are going to want to use the free toys you get. If using them outside that, I think cheep and cheerful is the way to go, with just a handful of toys.

It's just the way I see it like I said before. Storm Shields are the one thing Vanguard get that Sanguinary Guard and Death Company don't.