Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i been trusting my opponent with his army list and points. how does one no if your opponent is cheating with his army list. i find it rude to ask for ther book and look up there stuff. Also how does one know about the army special rules.

Ask to look at their army list and codex.

Its not rude at all.

Assuming you and your opponent are reasonable adults and not petty children who take any doubt or question as a slight against their honour.

But seriously, its all in the codex and the rule book. Judging by your constant spamming of incredibly simple questions, you'd be served by reading the rules again, all the way through, and then again from start to finish.

Ask

Hire a rules lawyer?

Look at the list.

zilka86 wrote:
So i been trusting my opponent with his army list and points. how does one no if your opponent is cheating with his army list. i find it rude to ask for ther book and look up there stuff. Also how does one know about the army special rules.

Don't you always enter a blood oath with your opponent to only use legal lists like everyone else? Its outlined on pg 13 of the BRB.

If you're not prepared to ask to see their book, the only real alternative you have is to have a copy of their book for yourself.

To be fair, its not that far fetched of a question. Between CADs, dataslates, allies, and formations, its completely possible to have four different armies represented in a single army list. I know if presented with something like that, I'd scratch my head just a bit and wonder if its all possible.

I do know however, I'd never really trust someone who has created the list off the top of their head or from memory. They better have the documentation to back it all up. Because I personally dont have every dataslate, suppliment, codex, formation, etc. memorized anymore.

Its all part of the mess that 40K has become. I remember when I could look across the table at pretty much any army and go yep, thats about 1850 points because I recognized everything on said table and had a rough idea of what its point costs were. Thats just impossible in todays games.

Any respectable player would have his list written out and all relevent rules sources on hand so that all information is on hand for any questions that arise.

Also in this specific instance zilak was unaware that 9 Imperial Knights is more then 1500 pts. A problem that is easily resolved by looking at the Imperial Knight codex once.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Any respectable player would have his list written out and all relevent rules sources on hand so that all information is on hand for any questions that arise.

Yes and no. I've had more games than I can count where you show up with a specific point value and the other guys point value is different. So somebody makes a modification. Often times on the fly without really looking anything up. Seriously, If someone said, well, I'll just drop/add two tyrinid warriors with barbed hooks and venom blood to make the difference, I'm petty sure I would just have to take their word that its fair, legal, or even possible. As I don't have a nid codex myself, so I wouldn't have brought one, the store copy might be being used by someone else, and realistically there is enough other pre-game crap that needs to be done that I really dont want to spend the 10 minutes just too see if the guy is getting a 10 point advantage.

respectability is fine and all, but sometimes you just want to get to the dice throwing. So then yeah, if its not fair or even legal, I wouldn't have any room to complain, however, Id have nothing to complain about in the first place either if the game never got started because I had to double check their entire list.

Any guy I've played in a pick up game format usually is really good at going through their list from top to bottom. 90% of the time I get all the rules and options as I make it a point to study all the different rules and options. Sometimes I ask for clarifications. Nothing intense. Its part of the game.

If you literally just ask me what my points values are I can have my codex open in 10 seconds and read off the values. I have 90% memorized because I actually read my codex *cough cough* and if my opponent actually read the rulebook *cough cough* I can just rattle off all the special rules and they'll know what it all does.

I set up secret cameras in my opponents' houses so I can watch them do their army lists. It's the only way to be sure.

I see people routinely arguing what is and what is not a "legal" list these days on these very boards. Overzealous posting or not, it seems to be a legit concern given formation this, detachment that, etc.

I dont get why your opponent can't show you his army list?
My mates do that and we trust each other inplicitly!
The BRB says that both sides have to be fully aware of the army/units/rules/psychic rubbish the opponent has.
same reason you can ask which transport vehicle a character or unit is in at any time and your opponent has to tell you.

If you have battlescribe on your phone you could plug his list in to make sure its all good OR if they have battlescribe they could just show you their list ?

all in all I've found this to be easier than looking up everything in someones codex

I've also seen the extreme of people owning every codex so they can know all the rules and points on their own..... but there's no way in hell I'm doing that myself.

Ask to see his army list.

Side note, are these all troll threads?

To a degree, you have to trust your opponent.

I find it better to let go of any reservations about your opponent, cheese and all, and just appreciate the company of a fellow wargamer.

This can probably be a bit challenging with certain kinds of personalities, but nothing impossible to overcome - when you try to be joyfully selfless.

If you really think something sounds off, the chances of you finding it, unless outright blatantly obvious, will be pretty low. Add in that time of you blundering, the game will be longer but with an added tension; it will be more about laws than what should be a novel pleasure; sort of self-defeating in my opinion.

Walk in with no expectations other than the joy to see kewl models, a story unfold, and dice to roll. With any company, this will only magnify it all.

My .02¢

Of course, I'm Christian, so the above is sort of a natural thing I would say

 jreilly89 wrote:
Side note, are these all troll threads?

Yes.

Get them to give you their army list, and then plug it into Battlescribe - quickly and easily find out their special rules, stats and points costs.

 Otto Weston wrote:
Get them to give you their army list, and then plug it into Battlescribe - quickly and easily find out their special rules, stats and points costs.

Does it actually have all of the various formations?

I know for sure that the last version of battlescribe still says that 9 storm talons would be illegal however it is possible to have due to the Tyrannic war vets + SM CAD

 jreilly89 wrote:
Ask to see his army list.

Side note, are these all troll threads?

This is the man who claims list construction is borked because his opponent can take nine Knights for free. I leave the inference to you.

 sudojoe wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
Get them to give you their army list, and then plug it into Battlescribe - quickly and easily find out their special rules, stats and points costs.

Does it actually have all of the various formations?

I know for sure that the last version of battlescribe still says that 9 storm talons would be illegal however it is possible to have due to the Tyrannic war vets + SM CAD

Yes. Hell it's even got all the new Necron Formations, including the WD Mephrit one, and that codex hasn't been out long at all. It can just be unintuitive at times but if you work with it for a bit, you'll get it.

 jreilly89 wrote:
are these all troll threads?

Yup

 jreilly89 wrote:
Ask to see his army list.

Side note, are these all troll threads?

I can only assume by his posting conduct that he is an adolescent kid. I remember when 12 year olds weren't allowed on the internet.

partninja wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Ask to see his army list.

Side note, are these all troll threads?

I can only assume by his posting conduct that he is an adolescent kid. I remember when 12 year olds weren't allowed on the internet.

Seriously. Thanks Obama

partninja wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Ask to see his army list.

Side note, are these all troll threads?

I can only assume by his posting conduct that he is an adolescent kid. I remember when 12 year olds weren't allowed on the internet.

We didn't HAVE the internet.

And all this was fields....

partninja wrote:
. I remember when 12 year olds weren't allowed on the internet.

At some point, people obviously noticed that most of the supposed grown-ups were behaving more or less the same as them anyway, so there was little point keeping them off.


But seriously, folks, the constant thread-jacking is getting old. If you think a thread is a troll attempt, just hit the report button at the top of the post. We'll look at it and decide whether or not the thread belongs here. Posting in the thread that you think it's a troll thread, or that the poster had other threads that you didn't like and so people should treat this one with disdain, is completely unnecessary. And spam. All it does is kill any chance of the thread actually remaining a legitimate discussion.

I've seen a number of perfectly acceptable threads recently dragged off topic by people reacting to the poster instead of the topic. This is simply unacceptable and has to stop.