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I know people don't think Weirdboyz are competitive, and I was just wondering why. Their unique Ork powers are great, and they are pretty cheap for what they do. In a diverse army, their is a unit for them no matter what power they get. Killbolt is an incredible attack, easily able to kill TEQ and vehicles at the same time! Power vomit can easily ruin TEQ, or a light transport full of Dark Eldar. 'Eadbanger has the potential to snipe a special weapon man, Warpath makes Boyz about 25% better! and Da Jump is very versatile as well. Da Krunch is also good, but only against 4+ armor. So why do people don't think Weirdboyz are competitve? They can easily make their points back, even if they only get one solid power off. Why is it that people dislike them?

They're not bad, but when you look at what the Warboss and Painboy provide which is better than the Weird boy since you're not dependent on dice (can re-roll incase of Warboss Waaagh), you've already used 2 HQ slots.

Weirdboyz are great.

4/7 of the powers are WC 1 and the other three are WC 2.

Its very easy to get the +1 WC for weirdboys.

The average weirdboy has a decent chance to pull of 2-3 powers a turn. Considering they are 70pts each with the upgrade, they are also one of the least expensive ML2 psykers.

Also considering their powers more or less ignore BS as they are beams, auto hit, or blast/template is pretty nice.

The reasons people do not see them as competitive are:

Most ork armies have a strong assault slant, making da' jump not so great. If you could assault after deep striking that would be one thing. Most ork units deep striking don't put out a lot of shooting to make it worthwhile. So it really only benefits a few units. Tankbustaz,ironically it is great for flash gits as they can usualy claim BS 3 with it since they did not move in the movement phase and da jump is happening in the psychic phase so when they land they are BS3 for the turn. Not much else benefits from it without the inclusion of other characters with mega armor to grant SnP to mek gunz or lootas. Burnaz are just too short range to have a decent chance to burn anything when they scatter and come in, and if you roll a double they can only make snap shots..

I think with the potential rise in necron formation nonsense Da Krunch is pretty amazing. AP4 ignores necron warrior/flayed one armor and the chance to get 8+ which would cause ID and reduce RP rolls by 1 is pretty good.

They are HQ selections. Orks rely on HQ more than many other armies to bolster the units. DLS MA warboss to tank, painboyz for FnP, Big Meks for KFF or MA SnP to shooty units.

Many players want a Warboss, and at aleast 2 painboyz or painboy/big mek and thats 3 HQ right there. So we are already looking at having more than a CAD or filling out the HQ for a Horde/ghaz detachment.

I've calculated that a Painboy in a Boyz squad, prolongs its life by 15 boyz, which is 90 points. This means that your Painboy, saved you 40 points. However, in a smaller unit, a Battlewagon unit perhaps, he only saves 10 Boyz, so he's only saves 60 points, and gives you 10 extra points. Therefore, a Painboy is not as useful in smaller squads, so if you are playing Blitz Brigade, a Weirdboy is probably better... Does this make sense to anyone?

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I've calculated that a Painboy in a Boyz squad, prolongs its life by 15 boyz, which is 90 points. This means that your Painboy, saved you 40 points. However, in a smaller unit, a Battlewagon unit perhaps, he only saves 10 Boyz, so he's only saves 60 points, and gives you 10 extra points. Therefore, a Painboy is not as useful in smaller squads, so if you are playing Blitz Brigade, a Weirdboy is probably better... Does this make sense to anyone?

This is fascinating. I'm building a trukk rush list. I know that isn't a very competitive list, but it's how I like to play orks. Would you suggest looking into a weirdboy over a painboy for my second hq then?

 Frozocrone wrote:
They're not bad, but when you look at what the Warboss and Painboy provide which is better than the Weird boy since you're not dependent on dice (can re-roll incase of Warboss Waaagh), you've already used 2 HQ slots.

Two words. Multiple Detachments.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
They're not bad, but when you look at what the Warboss and Painboy provide which is better than the Weird boy since you're not dependent on dice (can re-roll incase of Warboss Waaagh), you've already used 2 HQ slots.

Two words. Multiple Detachments.

As one who really, REALLY loves Weirdboyz, I'll tell you even when you take multi detachments, you almost ALWAYS want more Painboyz, Warbosses, or Big Meks.

If Weirdboyz are going to be taken, you need to build around them. They don't really work as a splash unit like Warbosses or Meks, who have so much more versatility or overall wholloping power. If you bring Weirdboyz, you might as well go for broke and fill up all your HQ slots with them.

I'd take my Weirdboyz a LOT more of the power selection was not random. As it is, they are a bit too risky. I'd want a Weirdboy for the extra attack and for power vomit for a Melee squad, to give a strong attack to soften up a unit and then bolster their strength.

In a shooty squad of Boyz/gitz/bustas, I'd want Da Jump and a good shooty power to compliment them.

But since you are getting random powers, you might get Da Jump on a CC squad, or all shooty attacks when all you want to do is run and those powers won't get used at all.

When do you roll for psychic powers? Can't you just deploy your Weirdboy with a unit that its powers fit? That was my idea of it at least...

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
When do you roll for psychic powers? Can't you just deploy your Weirdboy with a unit that its powers fit? That was my idea of it at least...

You generate before deployment I believe. But the fact still stands that the rolling for the powers is not consistent enough to be very 'competitive'. They are fun units for sure, but not by any means auto takes.

Surely a 5+ fnp would only prolong the lives of a 30 boy squad by 10 not 15 (if taken down to the last man).

Poly Ranger wrote:
Surely a 5+ fnp would only prolong the lives of a 30 boy squad by 10 not 15 (if taken down to the last man).

All depends on if Mork favors the Ork's FNP rolls or not.

45 wounds x 2/3 = 30 wounds. It saves 15 boyz

Not sure how 30 boyz is 45 wounds. I am intrigued and fascinated by your position on this.

Most people seem to think a FnP of 5+ is an additional not save-save thingy that reduces casualties by 1/3rd.

So 30 boys will if they all are somehow wounded in 1 round and fail their saves, will 'math-hammerly' have 1/3rd pass the 5+ FnP roll, so 10 will live, which is 60pts. You are most likely correct as the unit is removed to 0 models (because it has 10 left and they will get wounded and save and the process will continue until they have saved 15 boys and the mob is at 0 models remaining)

for a total of 90pts. This of course does not include the wounds for the painboy who may or may not be dead by that point.

This is of course relative to the unit the painboy is in. In a greentide the painboy will save ~50 boyz, not including wounds on warboss/nobs which is worth 300pts if they are just standard choppa/slugga boys.

In an unit of 20 ard boyz a painboy will save 10 models, which are worth 110pts

in an Unit of 6 Meganobz a painboy will save 6 wounds (3 models) which are worth 120 pts

in an unot of 3 meganobz a painboy will save 3 wounds (1.5 models) which are worth ~ 60pts

so the painboy is more cost efficient in mobs that cost more per wound. at certain points its arguable to put a weirdboy in.

I think a weirdboy has a good spot in a normal shoota mob of 20 or less, and a choppa mob of 30 or less.

I think a weirdboy has a great spot in flash gitz mobs, Da Jump especially as it happens in psychic phase so if the unit was still in the movement phase they would benefit from git findas. Also useful in a loota mob with a big mek that has MA for SnP, Also useful with tankbustaz.

Ah yes the extra wounds for the boyz that have been saved by fnp, I did not count them. It makes sense. 30 wounds, 10 saves. 10 extra wounds, 3.3 saves. 3.3 extra wounds, 1.1 saves. 1.1 extra wounds, 0.37 saves. So on an so forth where 45 is the limit for the average. Clever.
Would have been beneficial to those who are not as mathmatically inclined to have explained it better than just saying '45 wounds' though. I only realised due to blaktoof pointing it out.

This is of course assuming no st8+ blasts are ruuining your day.

I just multiplied 30 wounds by 3/2, which is the opposite of what a Painboy does. That equalled 45 wounds, and then you just multiply it by 2/3 which the Painboy does (to check your number) and it works out to 45 and back down to 30. So you save 15 wounds with the Painboy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems like people think Painboy vs. Weirdboy, and usually choose Painboy... What I wonder is why? As in many mobs, a Painboy isn't very effective.

I run a weirdboy, painboy and Big Mek w/KFF most games against my friends, and I would highly recommend the Weirdboy if you love rolling buckets of dice. Warpath gives slugga/choppa boyz 5A on the charge (I run them in a squad of 16+PK Nob).

The powers are a bit random and some are better than others, but the only one I hate is 'Da Jump' which means on a ML2 Weirdboy you have 3 good powers a game (1 roll + primaris + force). I've considered taken the Sanctic roll as well, since the +1 to invulnerable save synergises really well with my KFF, but there's a higher risk on the roles there.

Anyway, I'm not a competitive player but every time I bring a weirdboy in my list he makes me army hit just that much harder, so I would recommend at least trying one in a list and see if it works for you.

Do weird boyz have a better place in a more mixed shooty oriented army?

I'm interested in them and I seriously think they have value, as well... a force weapon is still something special for melee.

Because if you are playing against nids, or any army with equal psychic might, and they cancel all your castings, you are gonna take a wound regardless if you pearils.

I have had the opposite luck, and lost my weirdboy twice in different games in a row with absolutley no psychic powers successfully cast.

Not getting powers off is a potential threat of any psyker. Also, msybe I'm misremembering the rules, but a superior psychic force won't force you to take a wound from the Waagh Energy rule (if that's what you're refering to) since you have to pass your psychic test (thus negating the potential Waaagh Energy wound) before they can Deny the Witch.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I just multiplied 30 wounds by 3/2, which is the opposite of what a Painboy does. That equalled 45 wounds, and then you just multiply it by 2/3 which the Painboy does (to check your number) and it works out to 45 and back down to 30. So you save 15 wounds with the Painboy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems like people think Painboy vs. Weirdboy, and usually choose Painboy... What I wonder is why? As in many mobs, a Painboy isn't very effective.

Exactly. To kill a unit of 30 boyz with feel no pain (5+), you need to do 45 wounds. Which would have killed an extra 15 'normal' boyz.

Of course, the counter-argument is that those 15 boyz would also have provided combat power - shoota and slugga fire and choppa attacks - as well as just being spare wounds, but frankly any mob which makes it across the board broadly intact is clearly doing something wierd.

There is a second advantage, too. Absorbing 12 wounds by taking 12 casualties, as opposed to taking 8 casualites and passing 4 feel no pain rolls, probably moves the mob's front line back an extra inch. That's one of the problems with melee-oriented hordes - a good enemy shooting phase can undo your last run move, in addition to weakening the squad.

I'd agree on the suggestion; if taking Wierdboyz, go with the flow and take lots of wierdboyz.

I love getting weird with a weird boy. I've run him with a smallish unit of nobz and I feel that's a lot more useful. Usually hoping to get da Jump when I do this to throw them in the enemies face.

People either love or hate the psychic phase. You can't rely on the psychic phase, which is is the payoff for potential carnage. Your mileage may vary, but smashing things to death with a giant green fist (or foot) has always been hilarious, if unpredictable.

I often run a wierdboy. The results are mixed. Sometimes, he's helpful with this +1 attack or deepstrike. Shooting psy powers aren't bad but aren't great either. The worst is when you roll an ap2 flamer just cause it's so rarely used and needs 2 WC or 'eadbanger that's an underwhelming power. Force weapon is also quite useful.

But don't forget that the main thing your wierdboy does is +2 dice for DTW, better chances to deny a malediction/psy shooting and free harness the warp maelstorm point.

There's probably some competitive way of using them to summon daemons or hope to get hammerhand. 2 wounds with fnp ain't too bad for perils, eh.