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I bought a resin model form a company i have not heard of and it is what i thought a heresy/ post heresy chapter master in terminator armour and i was wondering if anybody knew who took charge of the chapter (ultramarines) after guilliman was put in . i am going to add lots of omega/ultramarine symbols and probably the gauntlets of ultramar, i will post pics tomorrow

we don't know, nothings been said. and chances are nothing will be said (Gulliman's death is a good century or two post Heresy)

we might though have some hints laid if the HH series shows us the second founding. I kinda like the idea that it might be Aeonid Thiel.

Alpha legion is implied to have killed thiel. There was an alpha legionair in his armor who tried to kill guilliman in unremembered empire

Considering Marius Gage held the rank of Chapter Master during the Battle of Calth.... And since this is very much during the life of Guilliman, is it safe to assume that he's the first? I am slightly fuzzy, but don't they say that it's a new position in the ordering of the Legion, but there are more than one at the time?

A Chapter was a sub-division of the Legion consisting of 10, 000 Astartes IIRC from Know No Fear. The Chapter Master was the commander of each Chapter. Essentially they were just captains-in-charge, like how Abaddon was Captain but there was another Captain under him in the Justaerin. The larger sub-division was necessary given the size of the Ultramarines. The Master of each Chapter acted like the equivilent Captain in the other Legions. The 2nd CM would hold rank equal to the 2nd Captain of another Legion, with Captains being more Sergeants in terms of authority outside the Legion

As to who the first one was, hard to say, but Marius Gage holds the rank of First Master in Know No Fear, so safe to say its him. Whether he survives or not I haven't read that far into the series.

Gage is most likely, but could be Thiel (no evidence he is actually dead ) or, y'know anyone else really.

I don't really see it being Gage. Being a proven senior officer it doesn't really make much sense for Guilliman to demote him to errand boy, it makes more sense for him to become Master of a Successor Chapter.

Thank you guys, as their is so much uncertainty on who it is i might just paint it ultramarine and not name him as it shouldn't matter to much.

p.s. as the gauntlets of macragge are used originally by guilliman and later by the chapter masters does that mean that the chapter master always has to use them in battle, i know you cannot just use one but i have never seen a pic of marneus alger without them

I would say its traditional, so yeah.

 Gashrog wrote:
I don't really see it being Gage. Being a proven senior officer it doesn't really make much sense for Guilliman to demote him to errand boy, it makes more sense for him to become Master of a Successor Chapter.

He's first captain so if he survives to the disbanding of the legions then he is the senior most captain, he'd be given command of the flagship successor chapter which is the Ultramarines.
Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter, he wouldn't distinguish between the Ultramarines, Novamarines or any other successor as they're all made from the Legion, they're all his sons.
In order to enforce his own edict on the breaking up of the chapters he would have taken a back seat to the leadership of the successors.

Here's a thought, maybe Guilliman saw his presence as harmful to the ability of his sons to establish their new chapters and he chose to have himself put in stasis. He was never mortally wounded, he chose to put himself on ice so that his sons could mature into truly independent Chapters. Sort of a break open only in case of real emergency, a secret that only one or two people in the chapter know, or maybe a time-locked secret that will reveal itself after say 10,000 years has passed.

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Yea, odds are any particularly notable named Horus Heresy character became chapter master of a successor. Guilliman himself was the first chapter master of the Ultramarines as a chapter instead of a legion. By the time Guilliman was finally taken out by Fulgrim, his successor could be a completely new person who maybe wasn't even around during the Heresy.

 Gashrog wrote:

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.
He may have stayed on Macragge, you don't go from being lord of a large empire like Ultramar and then ignore all the systems that used to make up your demesne. He would have spent considerable time ensuring that the systems were left in good hands.
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

Computron wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.
He may have stayed on Macragge, you don't go from being lord of a large empire like Ultramar and then ignore all the systems that used to make up your demesne. He would have spent considerable time ensuring that the systems were left in good hands.
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

Why not, it was his codex and his instruction after all? If he couldn't follow his own guidance why would anyone else.

The surviving Primarchs had to lead a Chapter of a thousand marines as well and at this point the second founding Chapters are just Imperial Fists or Ultramarines with different names. They haven't had to do an entirely new founding .

Computron wrote:

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.

The remaining Primarch's HAD to lower themselves, otherwise the breaking of the legions would be incomplete - having them become free agents would allow them to still operate de facto oversight even if they had no official authority (plus, as military commanders they'd likely be going on crusades, and which units are gonna be the first to volunteer?). Different strokes for different folks I guess, but I prefer to despise Guilliman for actually being holier than thou rather than being a hypocrite.

Computron wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.
He may have stayed on Macragge, you don't go from being lord of a large empire like Ultramar and then ignore all the systems that used to make up your demesne. He would have spent considerable time ensuring that the systems were left in good hands.
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

Or it could be like Dante and the Blood Angel successors now. Seth is the Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers, but he answers to Dante. When Dante calls, the other Chapters answer and will even take orders from Legion Chapter Captains who speak with the authority of Dante in that operation. Specifically, in the Battle of Armageddon. I think the 2nd one. Takes place in the book Blood in the Machine. And again in the Shields of Baal campaign.

Nothing says that a Chapter is completely separate in loyalty and while Guilliman only officially led the Ultramarines, he was still the forefather that all the other owed their loyalty and fealty to. Separate Chapters, a very distinct Chain of Command if/when they get together.

Computron wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.
He may have stayed on Macragge, you don't go from being lord of a large empire like Ultramar and then ignore all the systems that used to make up your demesne. He would have spent considerable time ensuring that the systems were left in good hands.
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

That's actually a very good point. I think I'm gonna revise my head canon, now, thank you.

Besides the fact that it's probably like the Dark Angels or Blood Angels in modern 40k (where the first founding chapter master does have some authority over all the successors, even if unofficially), there's also the fact that Roboute was a High Lord of Terra. That likely took up a large portion of his time too.

The rest of the surviving primarchs either didn't stick around very long, didn't break up into different chapters in the first place (Russ), or were possibly too psychologically broken to lead much more than a full chapter (Dorn).

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Computron wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

Computron wrote:

Guilliman would not be the leader of the Ultramarines Chapter

"Roboute Guilliman continued to lead the Ultramarines for the next hundred years" ~ Ultramarines Index Astartes article.

Rubbish writing if that's the case, he is the father of everyone who served in the Ultramarines legion, he would not have stayed on as the leader of a mere 1000 marine unit, lowering himself to the level of a chapter master and ignored everyone else.
He may have stayed on Macragge, you don't go from being lord of a large empire like Ultramar and then ignore all the systems that used to make up your demesne. He would have spent considerable time ensuring that the systems were left in good hands.
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

Why not, it was his codex and his instruction after all? If he couldn't follow his own guidance why would anyone else.

The surviving Primarchs had to lead a Chapter of a thousand marines as well and at this point the second founding Chapters are just Imperial Fists or Ultramarines with different names. They haven't had to do an entirely new founding .

Which is why it makes more sense for them to walk away from direct control completely. The 100 years following the second founding is when the primarchs all disappear isn't it? Maybe they made a decision to leave as their presence was too disruptive to the leadership of the new chapters.

Computron wrote:
In order to enforce his own edict on the breaking up of the chapters he would have taken a back seat to the leadership of the successors.

Huh? Where in Codex Astartes does it say that a Primarch cannot be a Chapter Master?

Computron wrote:
But to be leader of just the Ultramarines Chapter, I don't accept that.

And yet ... that's exactly the point of Codex Astartes. No single leader, not even a Primarch, was to have direct command over more than a Chapter ever again.

For the first Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, rather than Marius Gage I would go for one of the Tetrarchs since they appear to hold superior rank and answer only to Guilliman.

For what it’s worth, there is an old fluff piece describing the banner of Macragge with some info. It bears the names of all 77 chapter masters, from Guilliman to young Calgar. This implies that the primarch himself took the mantle and title of chapter master at one point.

This is a 3rd ed fluff bit, so may have been changed/retconed/etc.

thanks, i wish i still had 3rd space marine codex