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Is it legal to take more then one in your army?

Unfortunately they are a Imperium detachment, ergo they are allies, and you can take as many allies as you like. And vindicare does not have the "unique" special rule, so there's no reason why you can't have an entire army of them. Yes this is where we are with this ridiculous ruleset.

 TheSilo wrote:
Unfortunately they are a Imperium detachment, ergo they are allies, and you can take as many allies as you like. And vindicare does not have the "unique" special rule, so there's no reason why you can't have an entire army of them. Yes this is where we are with this ridiculous ruleset.

Slight correction; they are taken as an Elites choice in an Officio Assassinorum Detachment, which consists of a single compulsory Elites choice.

"You can include any number and type of Detachments in a Battle-forged army provided you have sufficient units."

It would be a ridiculous ruleset if it were common to come up against a Battle-forged army consisting entirely of Officio Assasinorum Detachments, sure, but given that most people play with combinations of Combined Arms or other "ordinary" detachments and formations, it's really not. No one forces you to play against a given opponent's army, after all.

It wouldn't even be that strong.

in a 1850 points list you can fit 12 assassins and have 50 points to spare.

What are 12 vindicares really going to do? sure, my characters and vehicles are going to be sniped down pretty quickly, but would I really care when there's only 12 models? They can hardly take down a 10-man squad of anything.

They have a 4+ invuln and can be ID'd by Str 8. Sure they have stealth but being in cover is a liability to themselves aswell since their weapon is heavy. You'd have to have a very unbalanced board if you can place 12 of these guys in a position where they have a LoS over the entire board.


Now, playing 12 Callidus assassins? THAT would be hilarious. If you get turn 1, you'd drop 12 AP2 flamers that wound on 4+.
Enemy turn 1 he can only fire snapshots at you, turn 2 you drop another 9-10 flamers and you just charge anything that's still alive.

Sadly, you can't take out vehicles. Maybe a 1:2 mix of vindicares and callidus assassins. 8 callidus to


rape infantry and 4 vindicares to kill of the vehicles.

DaPino wrote:
It wouldn't even be that strong.

in a 1850 points list you can fit 12 assassins and have 50 points to spare.

What are 12 vindicares really going to do? sure, my characters and vehicles are going to be sniped down pretty quickly, but would I really care when there's only 12 models? They can hardly take down a 10-man squad of anything.

They have a 4+ invuln and can be ID'd by Str 8. Sure they have stealth but being in cover is a liability to themselves aswell since their weapon is heavy. You'd have to have a very unbalanced board if you can place 12 of these guys in a position where they have a LoS over the entire board.


Now, playing 12 Callidus assassins? THAT would be hilarious. If you get turn 1, you'd drop 12 AP2 flamers that wound on 4+.
Enemy turn 1 he can only fire snapshots at you, turn 2 you drop another 9-10 flamers and you just charge anything that's still alive.

Sadly, you can't take out vehicles. Maybe a 1:2 mix of vindicares and callidus assassins. 8 callidus to


rape infantry and 4 vindicares to kill of the vehicles.

I'm not convinced that 12 Vindicares even rapes characters. It takes a Vindicate on average 13 rounds of shooting to kill an unupgraded Marine Captain in a unit. So they may down an IC a turn if they all shot at 1 thing. Likewise they average (counting explosions as 3 HPs) 4.58333 HPs between the lot of them at jinking Wave Serpents. Vindicares are unfortunately not very good at killing characters or vehicles, or infantry or Monstrous Creatures.

Vindicare ignores cover, so you can't jink against him. Vehicles are the only things he is good against.

 FlingitNow wrote:

DaPino wrote:
It wouldn't even be that strong.

in a 1850 points list you can fit 12 assassins and have 50 points to spare.

What are 12 vindicares really going to do? sure, my characters and vehicles are going to be sniped down pretty quickly, but would I really care when there's only 12 models? They can hardly take down a 10-man squad of anything.

They have a 4+ invuln and can be ID'd by Str 8. Sure they have stealth but being in cover is a liability to themselves aswell since their weapon is heavy. You'd have to have a very unbalanced board if you can place 12 of these guys in a position where they have a LoS over the entire board.


Now, playing 12 Callidus assassins? THAT would be hilarious. If you get turn 1, you'd drop 12 AP2 flamers that wound on 4+.
Enemy turn 1 he can only fire snapshots at you, turn 2 you drop another 9-10 flamers and you just charge anything that's still alive.

Sadly, you can't take out vehicles. Maybe a 1:2 mix of vindicares and callidus assassins. 8 callidus to


rape infantry and 4 vindicares to kill of the vehicles.

I'm not convinced that 12 Vindicares even rapes characters. It takes a Vindicate on average 13 rounds of shooting to kill an unupgraded Marine Captain in a unit. So they may down an IC a turn if they all shot at 1 thing. Likewise they average (counting explosions as 3 HPs) 4.58333 HPs between the lot of them at jinking Wave Serpents. Vindicares are unfortunately not very good at killing characters or vehicles, or infantry or Monstrous Creatures.

You sure on that math? My quick back of the envelope calculation says that it takes 6 rounds of shooting with shieldbreaker rounds on average to kill a base captain.

I believe he's including the 4+ look out sir in the calculation.

Ah. That would do it.

 TheSilo wrote:
Vindicare ignores cover, so you can't jink against him. Vehicles are the only things he is good against.

That is a good point I forgot about that. You say he is good against vehicles. It takes on Average including the ignores cover 450 points of Vindicare to kill 1 wave serpent. Or 1050 points to kill 1 landraider. Not convinced that qualifies as good.

For the Captain maths he has 3 wounds. You hit 11/12, wound 1/2,fail LoS 1/2. So 3/(11/12/2/2) or 3/(11/48) = 13.09 rounds of shooting.

Callidus assassins can deal with the infantry anyway.

Given he's only ap2 now, he's pretty shocking against vehicles. Even old 6th ed ap1 wasn't great - less than 50% chance to blow up a vehicle...

Best thing he can do is to man a Macro-Cannon

 TheSilo wrote:
Vindicare ignores cover, so you can't jink against him. Vehicles are the only things he is good against.

That's been my experience with him. A decent roll with Turbo-penetrator rounds can drop a vehicle, or at least weaken it a little (killed Longstrike and disable the railcannon on a Hammerhead recently with one).

Against anything else and I'd use him to snipe at MCs (Turbo-penetrator to do D3 wounds) or pick off special/heavy weapons. He's not a character killer (despite the rule) but he's a good way to pick things off here and there.

Yea they shoulda made his turbo rounds s10 base so he could atleast insta-kill some characters. As-is he's just too weak against infantry and characters. The other assassins are much better value IMO, unless you're against Eldar or Dark Eldar, in which case he's gonna wreck some expensive skimmers.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Vindicare ignores cover, so you can't jink against him. Vehicles are the only things he is good against.

That is a good point I forgot about that. You say he is good against vehicles. It takes on Average including the ignores cover 450 points of Vindicare to kill 1 wave serpent. Or 1050 points to kill 1 landraider. Not convinced that qualifies as good.

For the Captain maths he has 3 wounds. You hit 11/12, wound 1/2,fail LoS 1/2. So 3/(11/12/2/2) or 3/(11/48) = 13.09 rounds of shooting.

To be fair, the Turbo Penetrator rounds would do D3 wounds instead of 1 wound each shot. If you rolled all 3s, you'd only need 8.73 rounds of shooting. If you rolled all 1s, you'd need 26.18 rounds of shooting. If you averaged 2s for all your rolls, you'd need the same 13.09 rounds.

BUT... the Turbo Penetrator round can potentially kill a SM Captain in the first round of shooting, so it's your best choice. Granted, it's only a 3.82% chance to kill him outright, but it is still a chance. (11/12 to hit * 3/6 to wound * 3/6 to fail LoS * 3/6 to fail Invuln save * 1/3 to do 3 wounds = .0382)

TL : DR ; On average, Shield Breaker rounds and Turbo Penetrator rounds both take the same amount of time to kill Marine Captains, BUT... if the Fates are with you, you might be able to kill him on turn 1. If the Fates are with you on a Shield Breaker round, it'll still take at least 3 turns. Go with the Turbo Penetrator.

Inflicting d3 wounds (not 2 wounds) and only wounding on a 4+ is real weak-sauce for a 150 point model. A Leman Russ will wound on a 2+ and insta-death that guy and all his buddies.

Do you think a Vindicare is a viable anti-tank option? I mean a Str 10 shot AP2 hitting on a 2+/4+ is pretty good.

thefallenjackal wrote:
Do you think a Vindicare is a viable anti-tank option? I mean a Str 10 shot AP2 hitting on a 2+/4+ is pretty good.

For 150 points you have what an 11 in 72 chance to kill an AV10 vehicle that stretches to 11 in 216 for AV14. I don't see how anyone could call that good...

lol yah when you put it that way I agree too. Bummer though I really want to field one but I don't see its use that would make it worth the 150 points... He's gotta be at least a 110-120 model for me to at least consider him

 TheSilo wrote:
Inflicting d3 wounds (not 2 wounds) and only wounding on a 4+ is real weak-sauce for a 150 point model. A Leman Russ will wound on a 2+ and insta-death that guy and all his buddies.

Kinda hard to add a single Leman Russ to my Tau Empire army... or my Necrons army.

Sure, a Leman Russ is nice to have, but if you don't play Astra Militarum or Unbound, it has a decent HQ/Troops tax associated with it. You need to factor that in. Your 150 point Leman Russ Battle Tank really costs you closer to 250 points and comes with a bunch of Troopers that may or may not be useful to your army. And that Battle Tank has no options at all. Add some options and it's even more expensive.

Part of the advantage to the various Assassins is that there is NO tax at all. You can just add one or more to literally any army and get to playing. Are they must takes? Nope. Are they a fun addition to an army? Yup. I'm in the process of converting a custom Tau Fire Caste Sniper as a counts-as Vindicare. From a background perspective, he will epitomize the Patient Hunter style of combat, making him always distant and aloof... hence, not being a Battle Brother to the rest of the army. Will I use this model with every list I make? I doubt it. I've played with Vindicares many, many times in the past and I've rarely made my points back.

The key with the assassins is to play the mission. It's perfectly reasonable to take a vindicare if the plan is to earn his 1 VP for assassination. Good against IG, Tau, or other weak HQ units. I like the other three assassins, they're a lot of fun. But the problem with the vindicare is that he isn't particularly good at his assigned task. And while good for stripping hull points, he's mostly useless against all the Chaos and Marine walkers that seem to ignore stunned, shaken, and the like. Ap 1 would make him a good buy vs vehicles, but 4+ to wound an infantry model is thoroughly meh. I'd rather take a dozen snipers for the same price.

However killing that Rocket launcher or Lascannon in the 10-man Squad (or similar effects) i can easily see as quite game-changing.

Less of a "he made his exact points back in kills", more of a "he killed what could easily have killed your 100pts good Units". Basically he works Tactically, not on his own in a Vacuum

 BlackTalos wrote:
However killing that Rocket launcher or Lascannon in the 10-man Squad (or similar effects) i can easily see as quite game-changing.

Less of a "he made his exact points back in kills", more of a "he killed what could easily have killed your 100pts good Units". Basically he works Tactically, not on his own in a Vacuum

This is exactly what i use my Vindicare for. Killing special and heavy weapon users is great fun. They don't benefit from Look Out Sir rolls and generally don't have an invuln save. Hellfire rounds have a flat 76.4% chance to outright kill a 1 wound/no invuln/non character. Taking away a missile launcher/lascannon/meltagun can provide immense survivability to your units.