Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How come other xenon are not taping into genetic enhancement or modification like Human does to Space Marines. Look at Tau mostly. I know Dark Eldar and Orks does.

How come Tau doesn't. I guess you can say Eldar does a bit.

The Tau make their space marine equivalents out of Tech. That's all a crisis suit is. & judging by their effectiveness the crisis sense like the better investment.

Tau don't because it doesn't fit their philosophy.

Humans wouldn't either, what with their hangups about modifying the "perfect" human form. But the marines are ten thousand years of tradition. If the Emperor liked them no one else can get rid of them. It's a secret plan or something, like Inquisitors using Xeno tech.

I thought the Tau did use GM?

Or at least did initially, it would explain their different casts and the ethereal, also their relatively fast evolution. Didn't the air caste still have wings not that long ago in game timeline?

the likely answer, is that "they don't have the technology" this is especially true with the Tau. the Tau are a hypersdvanced race, but it's certinly a fair thing to guess that the greatest acheivement of the emperor of mankind simply is more then anything the Tau can acheive

Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Erm, why is their warrior caste not very good..?

Tau don't need it. One crisis suit is worth far more on the battlefield than at least two Astartes.

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Proably cause they can't. the Space Marines where created by the god emperor of mankind, using science mixed with warp sorcery. even if you could do it without the warp, there's no evidance the Tau have that level of biological technolgy. the Tau might be on par with the IoM, (or indeed better) in some areas tech wise, but it's certinly not impossiable they lack the tech to do something in the same ballpark.

Then there are the ethical issues of basicly mutating your own people into basicly living weapons.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Erm, why is their warrior caste not very good..?

Are they not T2? They are as tough as our elementry children...even eldar are tougher than them. In a galaxy full of terror....I would feel "safe" having children keeping my space empire safe.

They are a week species not design to take any punishment...yes their tech is advance...if our human have their tech our soldier will crushed all.

What is T2....?

Beer bottle test is my test. A average person can take a beer bottle smash to the head and live....Tau skull would crack and die.

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Erm, why is their warrior caste not very good..?

Are they not T2? They are as tough as our elementry children...even eldar are tougher than them. In a galaxy full of terror....I would feel "safe" having children keeping my space empire safe.

They are a week species not design to take any punishment...yes their tech is advance...if our human have their tech our soldier will crushed all.

What is T2....?

Beer bottle test is my test. A average person can take a beer bottle smash to the head and live....Tau skull would crack and die.

They're T3, pretty sure, same as a human. They don't fight in H2H combat, that's their entire point. Toughness and melee ability isn't the be all and end all of warfare. They use their superior technology, and adaptability to win battles. The Tau are a very potent military force.

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Erm, why is their warrior caste not very good..?

Are they not T2? They are as tough as our elementry children...even eldar are tougher than them. In a galaxy full of terror....I would feel "safe" having children keeping my space empire safe.

They are a week species not design to take any punishment...yes their tech is advance...if our human have their tech our soldier will crushed all.

What is T2....?

Beer bottle test is my test. A average person can take a beer bottle smash to the head and live....Tau skull would crack and die.

Tau are T3.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

They have combat drug type things in their battle suits, and Fire Caste can only breed with Fire Caste (and air with air, water with water and earth with earth). Not sure about bionic parts. They have some implants I think.

Within the fire caste, do they have the elite breeding program to make seal team 6! Human "breeding" program is the space marine...how come TAU don't do something like that. Their warrior caste is not very good.

Erm, why is their warrior caste not very good..?

Are they not T2? They are as tough as our elementry children...even eldar are tougher than them. In a galaxy full of terror....I would feel "safe" having children keeping my space empire safe.

They are a week species not design to take any punishment...yes their tech is advance...if our human have their tech our soldier will crushed all.

What is T2....?

Beer bottle test is my test. A average person can take a beer bottle smash to the head and live....Tau skull would crack and die.

They're T3, pretty sure, same as a human. They don't fight in H2H combat, that's their entire point. Toughness and melee ability isn't the be all and end all of warfare. They use their superior technology, and adaptability to win battles. The Tau are a very potent military force.

Lol, I guess so. Were they ever T2? I got to check the book at home.

I don't think so. I think only like Grots are T2...

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don't think so. I think only like Grots are T2...

Oh gak, your right. I just remember my math of wounding them 3+ and they wound me 3+ too. I play CSM. I forgot CSM are not human....yeah I am s4 T4 and they are S5 shooting t3... My bad.

On topic.

Of the alien races currently, why dont they use genetic modification :

Eldar- too prideful and stuck in tradition
dark eldar :- as per eldar, but they do use GM to make wracks/grotesques
Orks : they are the product of Genetic engineering themselves, it would never occur to them to try and alter the orks template (which has been pretty successful in any case)
tau: Doesn't fit their mindset, but possible some suble GM involved in the creation of the Ethereals
Kroot: lack the technology to do it as per space marines, but naturally capable of altering their genes though their diet.
Necrons: have no flesh of their own, but even when they did, expect they were too prideful to alter their genes significantly, although they certainly had the technology.
Tyranids: Do nothing but alter their genes, all the time.

 david choe wrote:
How come other xenon are not taping into genetic enhancement or modification like Human does to Space Marines. Look at Tau mostly. I know Dark Eldar and Orks does.

How come Tau doesn't. I guess you can say Eldar does a bit.

Cause they are less awesome than the superimportant tech-savvy masters of this Galaxy known as I o M.




Humans are known for enhancement and modification as part of their tech tree.

Orks and Elves are creations of the Old ones. Those may know what they did with them. Orks are just happy with their place ( grot & squig also count as members of the orkoids ). Space Elves are too fond of themselves and at worst act like mad scientists ( DE ).
Necrontyr changed their bodies ( Necrons ). And most likely are more intersted in software updates now...
Chaos is all about change and its followers may rather aim for these gifts than planned enhancement and modification ( loss of sanity if you subscribe to chaos ).
Kroot alter themselves and it seems to be a part of their nature ( maybe they have to? ) but it isn't always an improvement...
Tau are psyker-less plains people who like tech very much and selective breeding, but they have no clue who altered and added the Etherals to their society. Tau don't look like they could step beyond the lines drawn by Etherals, and the caste programme sounds very fishy....

Until someone wants xenos as Humans clad in xeno skin ( typical sci fi 08/15 ) or has a very good idea how to make it different enough from the Theme of the Humans, I don't see why any species in 40k should do what has already been done.

 david choe wrote:
Does Tau have combat drugs, bionic parts, or selective breeding for their fire case (super fire case) warriors?

The entire Tau race is the product of selective breeding. The castes are forbidden from interbreeding because each one has been socially engineered to have the best attributes for their caste's role in society. Basically an adaptation of the castes in Huxley's novel Brave new World (which was, in turn an adaptation of the Hindu case system).

The Tau probably aren't making genetic super-Tau because doing so would be a waste of time. Plus they already have genetic selection via the caste system. Fire warriors are the strong tau. Air caste tau are probably Str2 and T2.

What always amused me about the Tau is that the fire caste already are their genetic supersoldiers. At least we don't have to worry about what the Tyranids will gain from eating this race.

The Eldar don't do genetic modification because they don't need to, their genes are already pretty perfect.

This, of course, is not to say that they don't practice gene-therapy or other medical procedures when necessary or required, only to say that they don't need to genetically modify children to turn them into warrior-monks. Craftworld society is (by Eldar standards) extremely conservative.

The Tau do practice selective breeding programs within each Caste. Apparently, they're trying to convince Shadowsun to settle down and have a litter of kids, because they want to ensure her genetic lines are passed on. Never mind the fact that tactical acumen is not a genetic trait.

Tau would have to start from top though, it took the emperor with next to impossible skill in genetic manipulation to make the thunder warriors, cuatodius, arastes and primarchs.
He might of been refining the art for hundreds to thousands of years before he made his big entrance.

Can any race match the level of engineering it took to make humanity's great warrior eleite?

Also not helped by Tau have a shorter lifespan, they cannot have a genius and his acoloytes devote hundreds of years to single area of study.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Eldar don't do genetic modification because they don't need to, their genes are already pretty perfect.

This, of course, is not to say that they don't practice gene-therapy or other medical procedures when necessary or required, only to say that they don't need to genetically modify children to turn them into warrior-monks. Craftworld society is (by Eldar standards) extremely conservative.

The Tau do practice selective breeding programs within each Caste. Apparently, they're trying to convince Shadowsun to settle down and have a litter of kids, because they want to ensure her genetic lines are passed on. Never mind the fact that tactical acumen is not a genetic trait.

Given that the Emperor had to engineer warriors capable of defeating xenos, I don't think other races think about it much. We dabble and tinker. They seem pretty content.

I suppose this makes us the insecure adolescent in the room, but it works for the fluff.


Exalted for excellent coverage.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Tau probably aren't making genetic super-Tau because doing so would be a waste of time. Plus they already have genetic selection via the caste system. Fire warriors are the strong tau. Air caste tau are probably Str2 and T2.

They aren't grots .

Weaker, yes, but the scale of the game isn't exact enough.

Air caste are pilots. Combat Pilots have to be tough or they shatter their own bones and rupture their eyeballs during high-G turns. It's why it makes no sense to grow them on space stations, where ideally you want a minimal artificial gravity as possible to retain the advantages of being in space.

Tau don't get to choose their reproductive partners, anyway. The closest thing they have to marriage is the Ta'lissera, and when its their turn to breed, males and females are matched by the earth cast, then as soon as the sprog pops out, it's whisked away to the creche and the mother goes into physio to get her back up to fighting quality, or gets matched with another (or the same) male again for another child.

This is why the book, Last of Kiru's Line, is so rageworthy. It ignores that to make a "familiar" oh-no-the-womas-has-to-retire-to-have-kids story, which is pretty insulting to anyone who has to make that choice for real.

 jhe90 wrote:

Also not helped by Tau have a shorter lifespan, they cannot have a genius and his acoloytes devote hundreds of years to single area of study.

Unlike the Imperium of Man, the Tau have figured out how to take a genius and turn his mind into a chip that can be easily inserted into any Commander... Puretide Engram Chip.

It's still in the experimental phase. Once mass-produced, it will allow the Tau to swamp the Imperium in engagements that otherwise would have been close, and hold their ground in engagements they should lose handily.

Even better, eventually Tau other than Puretide will get chips based off of their memories. Eventually, Carlos Tau'Cock the sniper will get one. Tauie von Richtoffen will get one. Admiral Tau'atio Nelson will get one. Scientist Albert Einstau will get one. Henry Kissingtau.

... and eventually, Tauie Murphy will, allowing pretty much every Tau to pull in the memories of the most elite person who ever had their job.

Of course, I don't think that's as spiffy as the inevitable mass-production of the rail rifle, which will allow squads of Fire Warriors to butcher many times their number in Space Marines with few losses...but the Tau are a still-evolving race that has not yet reached its full potential.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Unlike the Imperium of Man, the Tau have figured out how to take a genius and turn his mind into a chip that can be easily inserted into any Commander... Puretide Engram Chip.

It's still in the experimental phase. Once mass-produced, it will allow the Tau to swamp the Imperium in engagements that otherwise would have been close, and hold their ground in engagements they should lose handily.

Even better, eventually Tau other than Puretide will get chips based off of their memories. Eventually, Carlos Tau'Cock the sniper will get one. Tauie von Richtoffen will get one. Admiral Tau'atio Nelson will get one. Scientist Albert Einstau will get one. Henry Kissingtau.

... and eventually, Tauie Murphy will, allowing pretty much every Tau to pull in the memories of the most elite person who ever had their job.

Of course, I don't think that's as spiffy as the inevitable mass-production of the rail rifle, which will allow squads of Fire Warriors to butcher many times their number in Space Marines with few losses...but the Tau are a still-evolving race that has not yet reached its full potential.

You mean the chip that turns them into robots with no will of their own and that's useless for dealing with psykers? It also damages the brains of anyone implanted with one. What you get is a generation of tactically inflexible commanders unable to make decisions on their own who are also lobotomized in the process.