How come other xenon are not using genetic modification

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**TiamatRoar**

EngulfedObject wrote:
EmpNortonII wrote:
Unlike the Imperium of Man, the Tau have figured out how to take a genius and turn his mind into a chip that can be easily inserted into any Commander... Puretide Engram Chip.

It's still in the experimental phase. Once mass-produced, it will allow the Tau to swamp the Imperium in engagements that otherwise would have been close, and hold their ground in engagements they should lose handily.

Even better, eventually Tau other than Puretide will get chips based off of their memories. Eventually, Carlos Tau'Cock the sniper will get one. Tauie von Richtoffen will get one. Admiral Tau'atio Nelson will get one. Scientist Albert Einstau will get one. Henry Kissingtau.

... and eventually, Tauie Murphy will, allowing pretty much every Tau to pull in the memories of the most elite person who ever had their job.

Of course, I don't think that's as spiffy as the inevitable mass-production of the rail rifle, which will allow squads of Fire Warriors to butcher many times their number in Space Marines with few losses...but the Tau are a still-evolving race that has not yet reached its full potential.

You mean the chip that turns them into robots with no will of their own and that's useless for dealing with psykers? It also damages the brains of anyone implanted with one. What you get is a generation of tactically inflexible commanders unable to make decisions on their own who are also lobotomized in the process.

Dat grimdark.

(IIRC, one of Farside's The Eight was rescued from a Puretide chip, though I forget if that was because it was a faulty prototype or if all puretide chips are that bad to those that use them)

**Zaki66**

If I recall correctly, the Fire Warrior cast are bigger and stronger (by Tau standards) through selective breeding... I guess that's a rudimentary genetic modification at work?

**Redseer**

Because gw doesn't want non human super soldiers that could in fluff be equal to or better than there super duper sphess mahreen poster children

**Psienesis**

Zaki66 wrote:
If I recall correctly, the Fire Warrior cast are bigger and stronger (by Tau standards) through selective breeding... I guess that's a rudimentary genetic modification at work?

Sort of. The various Tau Castes are all sub-species of an original "proto-Tau" race. We're not given anything about them prior to their discovery by the Imperium (when they were just tribal savages), but at some point in their history each caste was a separate "tribe" living in certain, specific regions of their homeworld, and had accompanying environmental evolution, based on the regions they lived in. It is questionable if Tau from different Castes are even capable of breeding with one another.

**Zaki66**

Psienesis wrote:
Zaki66 wrote:
If I recall correctly, the Fire Warrior cast are bigger and stronger (by Tau standards) through selective breeding... I guess that's a rudimentary genetic modification at work?

Sort of. The various Tau Castes are all sub-species of an original "proto-Tau" race. We're not given anything about them prior to their discovery by the Imperium (when they were just tribal savages), but at some point in their history each caste was a separate "tribe" living in certain, specific regions of their homeworld, and had accompanying environmental evolution, based on the regions they lived in. It is questionable if Tau from different Castes are even capable of breeding with one another.

Even if biologically possible, I doubt that the society's code/Ethereals would even allow that to happen.

**Psienesis**

One of the aspects of the Tau I don't think we'll ever see explored.

**fallinq**

Technically, the Dark Eldar DO have their own genetically modified warriors like mehrines. They're called Wracks and Grotesques. But Haemonculi don't want to make perfect soldiers, they want perfect lab assistants.

Most other races either don't have the skill or have moral hangups with messing with their genetics the way the Emperor did. Or they're the Necrons, who can't because they have no genetics left to modify.

Also, humans seem to be one of the more genetically unstable races in the galaxy. There are tons of natural born human mutants that have tentacles and extra eyes running around the galaxy, but you don't see that with the Tau, and only see it with the Eldar when something has been very deliberately and forcefully messed with. It's reasonable to assume that humans are one of the EASIEST races in the galaxy to genetically modify.

**BrianDavion**

Psienesis wrote:
One of the aspects of the Tau I don't think we'll ever see explored.

I like to think Tau art has a long standing theatre tradtion of tragic doomed love stories between the castes that strongly imply that cross caste romances are ultiamtly doomed to fail and bring harm upon everyone else.

**Psienesis**

Art has no place in a Utilitarian society. Every piece in its place, every part with its function. While the Earth Caste is noted for having "artisans", that word is not synonymous with "artist". An artisan could construct something that is purely functional.

**BrianDavion**

Psienesis wrote:
Art has no place in a Utilitarian society. Every piece in its place, every part with its function. While the Earth Caste is noted for having "artisans", that word is not synonymous with "artist". An artisan could construct something that is purely functional.

Eh I imagine they've got propaganda.

**Grimskul**

BrianDavion wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Art has no place in a Utilitarian society. Every piece in its place, every part with its function. While the Earth Caste is noted for having "artisans", that word is not synonymous with "artist". An artisan could construct something that is purely functional.

Eh I imagine they've got propaganda.

Yes, but propaganda within the strict dictates of the Ethereals. So there would be no grand theatre or any form of "art" besides that which would glorify the Greater Good with either statues/dioramas dedicated to revered examples of those who upheld it or other things. They certainly wouldn't allow widespread forbidden love stories to circulate publicly on stage.

**BrianDavion**

Grimskul wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Art has no place in a Utilitarian society. Every piece in its place, every part with its function. While the Earth Caste is noted for having "artisans", that word is not synonymous with "artist". An artisan could construct something that is purely functional.

Eh I imagine they've got propaganda.

Yes, but propaganda within the strict dictates of the Ethereals. So there would be no grand theatre or any form of "art" besides that which would glorify the Greater Good with either statues/dioramas dedicated to revered examples of those who upheld it or other things. They certainly wouldn't allow widespread forbidden love stories to circulate publicly on stage.

unless of course those stories always ended negitivly with the strong implication that "they never work out so don't do it"

**epronovost**

Water cast can be artist. They have music, poetry and visual art of all sort. These things are useful to an utilitarian society because they allow the developpement of better way of communication, better architectural form, better propaganda or way of teaching, developpement of scientifical discipline and improved physical condition. Art is far from useless or self referencial. Of course their art would be very different from what we see today in our society. In the novel Fire Warrior, they even mention that it's possible for a member of a caste to change to another one (though this is so rare that's almost unique)

**Psienesis**

Can you provide examples of any?

I also think FW is largely discounted, as it suggests the Ethereals are Psykers, and that a lone FW can mow down Space Marines and Orks and CSM and Titans with a single plasma carbine... or maybe that was the video game the book is based on.

**Wyzilla**

Psienesis wrote:
Can you provide examples of any?

I also think FW is largely discounted, as it suggests the Ethereals are Psykers, and that a lone FW can mow down Space Marines and Orks and CSM and Titans with a single plasma carbine... or maybe that was the video game the book is based on.

That Fire Warrior was also being empowered by Khorne at the time.

**NauticalKendall**

Farsight, I would assume has bionic legs as his where destroyed before becoming a commander. They haven't modified the different castes as much as they evolved into their roles through selective breeding, except the Ethereals. Fire caste could breed with Air caste as they are still genetically the same race the same way a donkey breeds with a zebra, its just forbidden by the Ethereals. There is probably a stigma against this as well.

That said, if a Firewarrior mated with a Air caste pilot. assuming they do it similar to humans, he would probably shatter their bones.

**Co'tor Shas**

The tau definitely have bionics.

**Zaki66**

fallinq wrote:
Technically, the Dark Eldar DO have their own genetically modified warriors like mehrines.

Don't they also sort of... regrow Dark Eldar from the remaining pieces? Sorta? I'm not sure but I did hear something along that line. Not really genetic modification I guess.

**lcmiracle**

Zaki66 wrote:
fallinq wrote:
Technically, the Dark Eldar DO have their own genetically modified warriors like mehrines.

Don't they also sort of... regrow Dark Eldar from the remaining pieces? Sorta? I'm not sure but I did hear something along that line. Not really genetic modification I guess.

@fallinq I don't recall the Dark Eldars having genetically enhanced warriors. Although the Haemonculus are known to provide certain biological enhancements, whatever they are, alongside the beauty palms, performance ehancement drugs, and the revival services.

@Zaki66 Yes, the Haemonculus can revive a dead Dark Eldar from his/her remains. The more skillful a Haemonculi is, the more probable the process can succeed on just a small piece of flesh. But that has more to do with the Dark Eldar biology and the Warp, rather than genetics. Basically a Haemonculi just make use of the Dark Eldar's ability to rejuvenate while "witnessing" pain, hang the remains of a dead DE above a place where slaves are slowly and painfully tortured, and see if the DE revives. In the process they might be bargaining with Slaanesh, since it's because of Slaanesh the Dark Eldar have a leaking soul problem. But no genetics modification in the process.

**chromedog**

Why don't CE do it?

According to their mythic cycle - they were MADE perfect in that form. There is simply no need (nor desire ) for them to do so.

Humanity?
They've tried. It didn't work out so well (there were attempts to gengineer IG regiments that didn't exactly work out as planned).

SM are an "antique" - they were the product of several hundreds of years of research and waiting for the tech to play catch up so the emperor could make them real. I don't think they could do that anymore. Too much knowledge was lost during the heresy.

Orks? Like eldar, they were designed that way. The perfect fighter muscle.

Tyranids ARE ALWAYS modifying their structure, incorporating elements of their defeated foes to make them stronger. The brain-blaster worm thing, the tyrant guard, both are rumoured to use eldar/SM dna in their makeup.

**Furyou Miko**

Wyzilla wrote:That Fire Warrior was also being empowered by Khorne at the time.

Or maybe that was just the effect of the natural Mon'tau state, free from Ethereal influence...

Psienesis wrote:Can you provide examples of any?

I also think FW is largely discounted, as it suggests the Ethereals are Psykers, and that a lone FW can mow down Space Marines and Orks and CSM and Titans with a single plasma carbine... or maybe that was the video game the book is based on.

Yeah, that's the video game. The book is actually more reasonable, although;

epronovost wrote:. In the novel Fire Warrior, they even mention that it's possible for a member of a caste to change to another one (though this is so rare that's almost unique)

I don't remember this bit at all. When did that happen?

**Wyzilla**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:That Fire Warrior was also being empowered by Khorne at the time.

Or maybe that was just the effect of the natural Mon'tau state, free from Ethereal influence...

Psienesis wrote:Can you provide examples of any?

I also think FW is largely discounted, as it suggests the Ethereals are Psykers, and that a lone FW can mow down Space Marines and Orks and CSM and Titans with a single plasma carbine... or maybe that was the video game the book is based on.

Yeah, that's the video game. The book is actually more reasonable, although;

epronovost wrote:. In the novel Fire Warrior, they even mention that it's possible for a member of a caste to change to another one (though this is so rare that's almost unique)

I don't remember this bit at all. When did that happen?

I'm pretty sure the natural state of Tau isn't screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

**BrianDavion**

Wyzilla wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:That Fire Warrior was also being empowered by Khorne at the time.

Or maybe that was just the effect of the natural Mon'tau state, free from Ethereal influence...

Psienesis wrote:Can you provide examples of any?

I also think FW is largely discounted, as it suggests the Ethereals are Psykers, and that a lone FW can mow down Space Marines and Orks and CSM and Titans with a single plasma carbine... or maybe that was the video game the book is based on.

Yeah, that's the video game. The book is actually more reasonable, although;

epronovost wrote:. In the novel Fire Warrior, they even mention that it's possible for a member of a caste to change to another one (though this is so rare that's almost unique)

I don't remember this bit at all. When did that happen?

I'm pretty sure the natural state of Tau isn't screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

Maybe it wasn't a Tau at all, maybe it was........... Alpharius!

**Furyou Miko**

Wyzilla wrote:

I'm pretty sure the natural state of Tau isn't screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

Ah, but given it was a Tzeentch daemon active on the planet, not a Khornate one...

**Wyzilla**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:

I'm pretty sure the natural state of Tau isn't screaming BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.

Ah, but given it was a Tzeentch daemon active on the planet, not a Khornate one...

All the more reason for the Firewarrior to be empowered for some good ol' daemon krumpin.

**Furyou Miko**

Heh.

**Frozen Ocean**

There is actually nothing to suggest that they don't, except for Orks. Genetic manipulation does not automatically lead to super-soldiers, much less Space Marines.

**EngulfedObject**

Frozen Ocean wrote:
There is actually nothing to suggest that they don't, except for Orks. Genetic manipulation does not automatically lead to super-soldiers, much less Space Marines.

Very true! Easy to forget since we have Space Marines as the poster boys of the setting.

**Frozen Ocean**

Apologies for the double-quote and fanon, but:

Frozen Ocean wrote:

My take on it is that the Tau have breasts, simply because Games Workshop are all but incapable of coming up with aliens that aren't just differently-flavoured humans. Fire Warrior armour is bulky enough to make this a non-concern for modelling purposes, anyway. For reproduction, I like the idea that they reproduce entirely through science, which could take a number of forms. Perhaps each citizen is required to donate a sample of their DNA, and this is used (after extensive processing to filter out all but the best genes, and ensure genetic diversity) to birth new Tau. Another method is something I suggested in another thread, a good while ago:

Frozen Ocean wrote:It's entirely possible (even likely) that the Tau don't rely on the standard and barbaric methods of reproduction we filthy humans do. That is; a gamete from each parent fertilised in what some might erroneously call "a test tube" or "a petri dish". The embryo could then develop in a machine. This would require a Fire Warrior maybe a day each (sitting in the waiting room, getting a gamete - or if their technology is sufficient to create stem cells, then any cell from their body - extracted, leaving and going back to their duties). This would also allow a huge degree of ability to genetically screen and perhaps modify the DNA of the Tau-to-be, or even just create the ideal combinations of parents to benefit genetic diversity. It would be fitting for the Tau. Gene extraction could even be a duty in of itself.

CpatTom wrote:I was always partial to this idea of lab grown baby blues. It seemed so clean and orderly, everything in its place. Not the messy bloody affair that humans kick and scream into. Seemed fitting for the Tau.

Frozen Ocean wrote:It does seem fitting for the Tau, CpatTom! There is no reason why they wouldn't do this and many reasons why they should, and it blends thematically (in terms of fluff-feel) with their obsession with perfection and control. There's no reason why their continual pursuit of advancing science shouldn't encompass genetics.

Just my bit on Tau reproduction in the modern era. It would have no bearing on female battlefield presence, though. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, there is no mention of Shadowsun's gender being remarkable, no "a Commander, even though she's a girl and those are icky", just stuff about being the youngest to do some things. Discrimination is really unfitting of the Tau, anyway.