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I have a SW army with a lot of drop pods, deep striking and outflanking, I really would like to go second in some of my games, the rule book states that you roll off for deployment and the winner can choose to deploy first or second and whomever deploys first can choose first or second turn and at that point the player due to go second can go first on a 6. If my opponent wins the deployment roll and sets up first but decides to go second is there any option I have to change that and go second myself?

Also, if I make a roll for a unit of reserves I don't yet want on the table, can I immediately put them back into ongoing reserves or something so I don't have to bring them on until I am ready or do I just "forget" to roll for them?

1. Afraid not, if they deploys first and give you first turn thats it.

2. No, that is classed as cheating. You must roll for reserve rolls without fail.

the reserve roll has a pretty good fluff component which I agree with. The reason for this is that these guys are (usually) falling from space or deep striking from far away and the vagaries of the warp and the atmosphere of the planet directly impair how your reinforcements arrive. SO, instead of being a choice of which turn after turn 1 your troops come on you have to roll for the reserves. To answer your question

No and no :-( I understand your goals of trying to get a tactical advantage, waiting for that "Need to Kill" unit to expose itself a bit more before you drop your one shot kill squad onto it.

thefallenjackal wrote:
Also, if I make a roll for a unit of reserves I don't yet want on the table, can I immediately put them back into ongoing reserves or something so I don't have to bring them on until I am ready or do I just "forget" to roll for them?

Shame on you for even asking this question. Conveniently "forgetting" to take a required action to gain tactical advantage is cheating, plain and simple. The variability of who goes first is one of the big downsides of an all Drop Pod army. If you can't handle that, switching armies might be the best course of action.

If you're running SW, though, there are several formations in Champions of Fenris which give you the ability to reroll reserve rolls, and, as I understand it, they don't prohibit you from rerolling a successful roll, in an attempt to roll a failure.

hahaha Kriswall, chill out bro, I was using "sarcasm" to lighten the mood of my post. I just didn't know if there was something in the rules that let me put my units into like ongoing reserves or something for another turn instead of bringing them on, "plain and simple" lol.

Ghazkuul, the thing I love most about 40k is the fluff that gives reason to the rules, like jink and such so I can get on board with your response, thx

If you are going second, you do not have to try to seize initiative. That part is optional, so if you want to go second, don't roll for it.

Also the first turn rules allow for many situations, it's only generally the player that deploys first, gets the first turn. It is also listed as an option to let the player who deployed second, go first.

reserves: If you have strategic genius, you can reroll your successful reserve rolls and hope you fail the second roll. But you must make the roll for any unit in reserves that's not optional.

you either deploy first and go first,

or deploy 2nd and go 2nd (barring a sucessful seize)


you cannot choose to deploy 2nd a go first by RAW

 easysauce wrote:
you either deploy first and go first,

or deploy 2nd and go 2nd (barring a sucessful seize)


you cannot choose to deploy 2nd a go first by RAW

But you can deploy first and go 2nd.

sorry I see what you are saying now, but its still normally not an option as you cannot choose to deploy 2nd outside of friendly games where that kind of things makes sense.

first to deploy gets first turn,

2nd to deploy gets 2nd turn.(barring seize)


while the rule book says its an option, it also says most of the time you shouldnt have that option... so silly that they word it with a specific intent in mind (ie normally 1st deploy is 1st turn) but then state the intent doesnt really matter,
si you are technically right, but every tournament big and small I have seen rules it as first deploy = first turn only.

easysauce wrote:
sorry I see what you are saying now, but its still normally not an option as you cannot choose to deploy 2nd outside of friendly games where that kind of things makes sense.

first to deploy gets first turn,

2nd to deploy gets 2nd turn.(barring seize)


while the rule book says its an option, it also says most of the time you shouldnt have that option... so silly that they word it with a specific intent in mind (ie normally 1st deploy is 1st turn) but then state the intent doesnt really matter,
si you are technically right, but every tournament big and small I have seen rules it as first deploy = first turn only.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. The rules explicitly state that the player who wins the roll off may choose to deploy first or second, and that the player who deploys first may choose to take the first turn or second, and that if they choose to go first, the other player may choose to seize the initiative. I've never played in or seen a tournament that requires the player who wins the roll off to deploy first, or requires the player who deploys first to take the first turn. And I don't know why you would assume that that was the intent of the game designers, when the rules state otherwise in no uncertain terms

Especially as it is an explicit change from 6th and prior editions.

AnFéasógMór wrote:

easysauce wrote:
sorry I see what you are saying now, but its still normally not an option as you cannot choose to deploy 2nd outside of friendly games where that kind of things makes sense.

first to deploy gets first turn,

2nd to deploy gets 2nd turn.(barring seize)


while the rule book says its an option, it also says most of the time you shouldnt have that option... so silly that they word it with a specific intent in mind (ie normally 1st deploy is 1st turn) but then state the intent doesnt really matter,
si you are technically right, but every tournament big and small I have seen rules it as first deploy = first turn only.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. The rules explicitly state that the player who wins the roll off may choose to deploy first or second, and that the player who deploys first may choose to take the first turn or second, and that if they choose to go first, the other player may choose to seize the initiative. I've never played in or seen a tournament that requires the player who wins the roll off to deploy first, or requires the player who deploys first to take the first turn. And I don't know why you would assume that that was the intent of the game designers, when the rules state otherwise in no uncertain terms

it is stated that it is generally played that way, but by no means that you must play that way. Read the first turn rules on pg 132. The first option is for the players to just decide, so just ask to go second, followed by what you think is a explicit rule, and ends with the RAW option to deploy first and go second.

sirlynchmob wrote:

AnFéasógMór wrote:

easysauce wrote:
sorry I see what you are saying now, but its still normally not an option as you cannot choose to deploy 2nd outside of friendly games where that kind of things makes sense.

first to deploy gets first turn,

2nd to deploy gets 2nd turn.(barring seize)


while the rule book says its an option, it also says most of the time you shouldnt have that option... so silly that they word it with a specific intent in mind (ie normally 1st deploy is 1st turn) but then state the intent doesnt really matter,
si you are technically right, but every tournament big and small I have seen rules it as first deploy = first turn only.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. The rules explicitly state that the player who wins the roll off may choose to deploy first or second, and that the player who deploys first may choose to take the first turn or second, and that if they choose to go first, the other player may choose to seize the initiative. I've never played in or seen a tournament that requires the player who wins the roll off to deploy first, or requires the player who deploys first to take the first turn. And I don't know why you would assume that that was the intent of the game designers, when the rules state otherwise in no uncertain terms

it is stated that it is generally played that way, but by no means that you must play that way. Read the first turn rules on pg 132. The first option is for the players to just decide, so just ask to go second, followed by what you think is a explicit rule, and ends with the RAW option to deploy first and go second.

The RaW is this:

If you are using a Warhammer 40,000 mission, then this information will be included with it, but if you are not using a mission, you and your opponent must decide the starting player for yourselves.

Most of the questions on YMDC will assume "a Warhammer 40,000 mission" such as Eternal War or Maelstrom of War.

If you wish to play "non-Warhammer 40,000 missions", feel free to do so.
You do not need the rules for Victory points, Reserves, Objectives, Game length, and more.

During those games, things like Deep Strike or Outflank do not even exist.

If you wish to continue discussing Force organisation of an Unbound list, or Turn order of a game that is not "a Warhammer 40,000 mission", please mark your posts as such so that it is clear to all readers.

 BlackTalos wrote:

The RaW is this:

If you are using a Warhammer 40,000 mission, then this information will be included with it, but if you are not using a mission, you and your opponent must decide the starting player for yourselves.

Most of the questions on YMDC will assume "a Warhammer 40,000 mission" such as Eternal War or Maelstrom of War.

If you wish to play "non-Warhammer 40,000 missions", feel free to do so.
You do not need the rules for Victory points, Reserves, Objectives, Game length, and more.

During those games, things like Deep Strike or Outflank do not even exist.

If you wish to continue discussing Force organisation of an Unbound list, or Turn order of a game that is not "a Warhammer 40,000 mission", please mark your posts as such so that it is clear to all readers.

Where is that assumption written?
You do need the set conditions for the 6 parts of missions. deployment, victory conditions, first turn, game length, and special rules. See creating your own missions.

The OP asked about going second, I pointed out that their are several RAW ways to do so.

During non standard games you can choose to include the common special rules like deep strike & outflank so they can exist, they are not in any way forbidden, nor limited to just the 40k missions.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

The RaW is this:

If you are using a Warhammer 40,000 mission, then this information will be included with it, but if you are not using a mission, you and your opponent must decide the starting player for yourselves.

Most of the questions on YMDC will assume "a Warhammer 40,000 mission" such as Eternal War or Maelstrom of War.

If you wish to play "non-Warhammer 40,000 missions", feel free to do so.
You do not need the rules for Victory points, Reserves, Objectives, Game length, and more.

During those games, things like Deep Strike or Outflank do not even exist.

If you wish to continue discussing Force organisation of an Unbound list, or Turn order of a game that is not "a Warhammer 40,000 mission", please mark your posts as such so that it is clear to all readers.

Where is that assumption written?
You do need the set conditions for the 6 parts of missions. deployment, victory conditions, first turn, game length, and special rules. See creating your own missions.

The OP asked about going second, I pointed out that their are several RAW ways to do so.

During non standard games you can choose to include the common special rules like deep strike & outflank so they can exist, they are not in any way forbidden, nor limited to just the 40k missions.

RaW:

The first thing you need to do when preparing for a battle is to decide if you wish to use a Warhammer 40,000 mission from a Games Workshop publication.(...) if not, you and your opponent can create your own mission by deciding for yourselves what to do for each step of the Preparing for Battle sequence.

Setting up a game.
Step 1: Choose to play "a Warhammer 40,000 mission" or not.

A) You do select to play "a Warhammer 40,000 mission". I am quite sure this is what the OP is asking, when he says:

thefallenjackal wrote:
the rule book states that you roll off for deployment and the winner can choose to deploy first or second and whomever deploys first can choose first or second turn and at that point the player due to go second can go first on a 6. If my opponent wins the deployment roll and sets up first but decides to go second is there any option I have to change that and go second myself?

B) You do not select "a Warhammer 40,000 mission". You can play by any rules that you wish in setting up your games.
This is not usually the stance for questions in YMDC, therefore stating those rules as fact is very close to arguing "The Most Important Rule", and we know how that is covered in the Tenets.

Which is why, as much as "The Most Important Rule" and "Creating Your Own Missions" are indeed major aspect of the game, they probably fall short of Tenet N*2, which, in a round-about way, means YMDC is to discuss "a Warhammer 40,000 mission"

I will not deny that "Creating your own" exists, and that talking to your opponent is the way forward.