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I keep reading praise for daemonettes as allies for CSM to fill gaps in assault. now that I've finally had a chance to read through the daemon codex, I'm trying to figure out why. their stat line isn't all that impressive, but they are definitely cheap. what makes them great beyond cost? are they best as a larger unit or at their default 10-man size?

They all have rending? they run with +d3 and are fleet

I come up against them often (My girlfriend plays Slaaneshi daemons army) and I want nothing to do with them in CC I would sit and shoot them for days from gun lines with my wolves before attempting assault.

When you summon daemonettes, they get the highest and the most reliable run move to bauble wrap whatever needed.

Besides...daemonettes are made for love! In some way.

Rending and lots of attacks solves most problems. Having a 5++ and being fast and numerous is icing on the cake. That you can hide heralds with invis and AP2 at initiative; more-than-you is yet one more reason.

the rending and fast movement I get, but where does this "lots of attacks" idea come from? they're 2 base, 3 on the charge. for a dedicated melee unit, that doesn't sound like a lot to me... I was expecting something more like base 2, +1 for extra CCW so it's really 4 on the charge. are my expectations just too high in this regard?

 varl wrote:
are my expectations just too high in this regard?

Possibly

Cheep + rending is a great combination as if you kill anything, its always a bonus, while if you dont, you didnt invest THAT much for it.

 varl wrote:
the rending and fast movement I get, but where does this "lots of attacks" idea come from? they're 2 base, 3 on the charge. for a dedicated melee unit, that doesn't sound like a lot to me... I was expecting something more like base 2, +1 for extra CCW so it's really 4 on the charge. are my expectations just too high in this regard?

They are only 9 ppm

hmm, ok. fair enough. I guess I was expecting them to be more bang than bargain after what I'd been reading about them.

my interest in them stemmed from the idea of allying in a couple units + a herald to take over assault duties for my CSM list. the rest of the list will be fairly mechanized (marines in rhinos, vindicators, heldrake, defiler, possibly one of the helbrute formations) and led by a sorcerer. in the 1500+ point range, would I be better served by running 20-man daemonette squads or keeping them at 10-man? seems like they'll die fairly easily to shooting (assuming I don't get invisibility or shrouding), but the footprint of a deep striking 20-man blob makes me nervous. I'm torn.

Also, they have a pretty good Icon (-WS vs opponent) and Herald (either +Init to guarantee a Sweep or reroll to Hit).

And, they are also less likely to get toasted by Warp Storm RNG.

Because they are sexy little things.

 varl wrote:
hmm, ok. fair enough. I guess I was expecting them to be more bang than bargain after what I'd been reading about them.

my interest in them stemmed from the idea of allying in a couple units + a herald to take over assault duties for my CSM list. the rest of the list will be fairly mechanized (marines in rhinos, vindicators, heldrake, defiler, possibly one of the helbrute formations) and led by a sorcerer. in the 1500+ point range, would I be better served by running 20-man daemonette squads or keeping them at 10-man? seems like they'll die fairly easily to shooting (assuming I don't get invisibility or shrouding), but the footprint of a deep striking 20-man blob makes me nervous. I'm torn.

When I am feeling fluffy and play CSM/daemons, I run a unit of 10 plaguebearers with instrument and icon. Then a unit of 20 plaguebearers with herald.
If the unit of 10 arrives from reserves, the unit of 20 also arrives thanks to the instrument.
The icon on the 10 will prevent the unit of 20 from scattering as long as the first model is placed within the set range (I think 12). If the unit of 10 does not arrive, then I get to have fun with a pie plate sized deep strike.

Giving nettes the +5 initiative upgrade via the herald is a trap. No assault grenades, and you are already 5, you won't fight much that will go before them. Move through cover is nice, and re-roll failed hits is really nice.

Cheap, have fleet and a +3" run, plus rending and a decent weapons skill

I have shocked many people with my 20 Daemonettes running after Deep Striking. A decent roll gets them 6-7" from where they started, which can mean all the difference to the fire they take. And if you get 9" wow.

Fast running, cheap and have boobs. Don't ask.

I feel like you think they are some sort of uber elite assault unit? They are a 9ppm troops choice... with rending... the fact that they are super fast is gravy. If youre taking daemons as allies, ask yourself what you need. If all you want them to do is sit back and camp and obj, then yeah grab some plague bearers, but for pretty much anything else youre gonna want the nettes, theyre just that versatile, and with good numbers and positioning can threaten many things in the game, as well as hold/capture objectives further up-field. Horrors shooting is too inconsistent and blood letters are just... disappointing.

Two words... Bewbs .

 Cheebs wrote:
I feel like you think they are some sort of uber elite assault unit? They are a 9ppm troops choice... with rending... the fact that they are super fast is gravy. If youre taking daemons as allies, ask yourself what you need. If all you want them to do is sit back and camp and obj, then yeah grab some plague bearers, but for pretty much anything else youre gonna want the nettes, theyre just that versatile, and with good numbers and positioning can threaten many things in the game, as well as hold/capture objectives further up-field. Horrors shooting is too inconsistent and blood letters are just... disappointing.

Horrors do the objective thing better than Plaguebearers. Able to get 3+ cover with reroll 1s, and generate warp charge to boot.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Two words... Bewbs .

Bewb to be more precise.

They Can be vicious with a Herald.

They can also be a good candidate for the grim. If it fails going to a 6+ on such a fragile unit doesn't hurt much more than their natural 5+, especially if you have cover. Going to a 3+ on the other haND can make them surprisingly tough.

obsec troops with fleet and an extra 3" on run can win Games. It only takes 1 survivor to steal an objective. Horrors are pushover in cc, and plague bearers are slow and purposeful.

 koooaei wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Two words... Bewbs .

Bewb to be more precise.

Depending on what minis you are using. It could be anywhere from 0-6 bewbs.

Possibly with giant lobster claws. (butter not included)

Also, they were the only troop in the codex to not get nerfed from their previous stats. They dropped 5 ppm but maintained their stat line whereas blood letters and plague bearers dropped in toughness (huge hit). Horrors became harder to use with the warp charge restrictions and giving units feel no pain.

How do people equip their Heralds of Slaanesh?

I like them mounted on a seeker carrying the locus that grants +5 initative to the unit. I also like to give them an ether blade for some I10 AP2 goodness. Anything else feels like bloat.

My herald goes on a seeker with move though cover loci and the portal glyf rush a flank drop the portal run then next turn charge back field campers.

as to netties as troops there cheap fast and rip up anything with a T value at high init with multi attacks, they even threaten armour upto 12, i love em!

Daemonettes are great because of I6, rending, Fleet, and their number of attacks on the charge.

They suffer the same drawbacks as all other daemons in not being able to go to ground and daemonic instability. That said, you are generally not taking them to hold objectives, but to try and clear off the enemy or blunt a charge on your backfield pink horrors from say bikers or drop podding whatevers.

People generally take (or summon) Seekers if they need more speed. You get more value summoning 10 daemonettes vs. 5 seekers in terms of points, but if it is close to the end of the game and you need to reach an objective or enemy unit then Seekers.

Seekers are really just daemonettes but more so, and are really, really good units.

The speed at which they can dart up the board is insane - seeker chariots even more so!

Ultimately, as noted above, they're cheap and expendable but still effective. High WS and I with plenty of rending attacks means they have a fightng chance regardless of opponent, and with the support of fiends they can actually go in and dig people out of cover if they have to.

Plus, slaaneshi heralds have access to telepathy, which is really good because of invisibility.

Expect to lose a lot of daemonettes - It doesn't take much gunfire to seriously cripple a pack - but they can make a mess.

 varl wrote:
hmm, ok. fair enough. I guess I was expecting them to be more bang than bargain after what I'd been reading about them.

my interest in them stemmed from the idea of allying in a couple units + a herald to take over assault duties for my CSM list. the rest of the list will be fairly mechanized (marines in rhinos, vindicators, heldrake, defiler, possibly one of the helbrute formations) and led by a sorcerer. in the 1500+ point range, would I be better served by running 20-man daemonette squads or keeping them at 10-man? seems like they'll die fairly easily to shooting (assuming I don't get invisibility or shrouding), but the footprint of a deep striking 20-man blob makes me nervous. I'm torn.

3 attacks on the charge is a lot. That's what most dedicated assault units get. 40 (36) points of Daemonettes have 12 attacks on the charge, while the much-feared Wraith with 40 points has 4.

 D6Damager wrote:
They suffer the same drawbacks as all other daemons in not being able to go to ground and daemonic instability.

What prevents daemons from going to ground?

Nothing, I suspect he's conflating Fearless with "automatically passes LD checks."