Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
person67 wrote: true but I think gulliman was more respected by the other primarchs. he might have won if there was a vote by the primarchs.
Alpharius disliked the way Guilliman looked down on him and Lorgar despised him. Lion wouldn't vote for anyone but himself, especially if taking Guilliman on his generalship wear Lion would have bitch slapped anyone who said Guilliman was a better strategist that him.
Sanguinius was pretty much universally loved. I've never read of anyone having a dislike for him.
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
it might have ended up as a deadlock. I would still say gulliman would win. sanguinus, lion and fulgrim would try for it and would probably split a part of their vote between then I think gulliman would reluctanly be nominated by corax and he would win as a comprimise.
person67 wrote: true but I think gulliman was more respected by the other primarchs. he might have won if there was a vote by the primarchs.
Nope, even Guilliman knew he was never really in the running for Warmaster. He didn't have the charisma really or get on with any of the other Primarchs. He had 4/5 actual friends in the Primarchs. Sanguinius was, I belive, universally liked, if not very nearly.
A lot of the Primarchs are incredibly proud, stubborn and independent-minded. The prerequisite for being named the Warmaster (and it wouldn't be a vote, but an appointment by the Emperor) is being able to make your brothers do as you ask of them. That requires loads of charisma, which is why Horus and Sanguinius were the frontrunners and probably only real candidates for the job.
I think probably only Horus, Sanguinius, the Lion and Guilliman had the actual skills for the job, but the Lion and Guilliman didn't have the people skills side to actually do the job properly. Which left Horus and Sanguinius, and Horus was the favoured son of the Emperor, and probably had the better balance of skills (not that Sanguinius isn't a good tactician or anything, but Horus is renowned for both his diplomacy and his tactical acumen).
It seems Sangunius was the other primary candidate, as seen in False Gods, Fear to Tread, and also Unremembered Empire.
The following passage from Unremembered Empire seem to reinforce this:
Spoiler:
‘He is the most suitable,’ Euten said. ‘To see him up close… Lord Sanguinius is the most…’
She searched for a word.
‘He is angelic,’ said Dolor.
‘He is numinous,’ added Farith Redloss. ‘He is more like his father in that respect. Some of the primarch lords are very much of the flesh. Horus is one, and your lord Guilliman another. They have physicality. But the Emperor… To be in his presence is to be in the presence of that which is spiritual, and has no constant form. It is said the Emperor appears to each man in the image that man wishes to see. I think Lord Sanguinius has inherited much of that trait.’
Euten nodded.
‘It is true. I do not think of him as a face or a figure. I think of him as a light. The very colour of his hair and his eyes seems to change with his mood, and with mine.’
‘This has been noted by others,’ Dolor agreed. ‘Several of the primarchs have this quality beyond simple physical stature, but none more than Sanguinius.’
‘He would be perfect,’ she said.
‘Many think so,’ said Farith Redloss. ‘Just as many wonder why Horus and not Sanguinius was chosen as Warmaster after Ullanor. If Horus was preferred, and yet has revealed such mortal flaws since, one wonders what secret flaws reside in the Lord of the Blood Angels?’
Unremembered Empire also suggests the Lion as an obvious choice for Warmaster and that he was admired by the other Primarchs, so the Lion wanting to be Warmaster doesn't seem that far-fetched at all if you look at the following lines:
Spoiler:
The Lion emerged.
Despite himself, Guilliman felt his heart skip and his lungs pump. The Lion. The Lion. There were brothers that he could look down on, and was happy to, and there were brothers that he could admire.
Rogal, Magnus and Sanguinius, and, damn him, even Russ. He could admire them for what they were. But there were only two brothers that he had ever actually looked up to, only two brothers that he had ever actually admired.
There were only two brothers that he felt shadowed by when they were present.
Lion El’Jonson and Horus Lupercal.
Spoiler:
‘There has never been a time before,’ replied Guilliman. ‘The universe has never closed in so tightly around us to squeeze the words out. I will be plain. I have never had the courage before. I have
always been too in awe of the noble Lord of the First.’
‘The Master of the Five Hundred Worlds in awe of me?’ laughed the Lion.
‘You know it. You know we all were. When Horus was named Warmaster, he did not much care that he had succeeded above me, or Rogal, or Ferrus. What he truly savoured was being chosen over you.’
Spoiler:
‘Part of your honesty, Roboute,’ he said, ‘was to remind me that I am not an open book. I have
always found it hard to trust and be trusted.’
‘But you are admired and beloved–’ ‘That is not the same thing at all. I have my secrets. Men may keep secrets for good reasons.’
And yes, I've finally started reading Unremembered Empire (or more accurately I've been skimming through it, reading the interesting bits ). Parts of it I really like, including its depiction of the Lion and the First Legion. The interaction between Guilliman and the Lion is some of the best yet among the Primarchs I think. Curze is too much like a cartoon villain though and I still don't like the perpetual plot
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/04 09:50:19
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Don't forget, Guilliman became Lord Commander of the Imperium after the Scouring, so he was at the very least a top contender for the job. In my opinion though, the top three for the job were Horus, Sanguinius and the Lion.
Guilliman is great, but before the Heresy, he had too many enemies among his brothers. Lorgar, Alpharius, Angron being the top 3, and I'm sure it's quoted in one of the books, (Know no Fear?) that he only had 4 or 5 real friends in his brothers, Dorn and Sanguinius being two of them, and possibly Ferrus.
That's true, but that's also after most of the top contenders had either turned to Chaos or either incapacitated or in no emotional state to compete (Dorn). That said, he definitely had the skills for it but was arguably even better working in a logistical capacity alongside the High Lords (which is what he was doing as the Lord Commander, right?). The rest of Primarchs were sort of doing their own thing anyway after the Heresy.
And yea, I agree with the top contenders since that's pretty much what Unremembered Empire states outright.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/05 14:05:21
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
). Parts of it I really like, including its depiction of the Lion and the First Legion. The interaction between Guilliman and the Lion is some of the best yet among the Primarchs I think. Curze is too much like a cartoon villain though and I still don't like the perpetual plot 
