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Inspired by the Movie Eldar thread...

All suits can fly vertically upwards; protecting them from assault (just like Shadowsun did in the Damocles Anthology).

All Tau would have ATSKNF (due to their belief in the Greater Good).

One Fire Warrior is worth 20 Space Marines (Fire Warrior); so something like strength D pulse rifles would make sense.

What are your thoughts?

Fire Warrior is hardly a reliable source... and I doubt a normal Fire Warrior being able to take on 20 marines would fit with any of the established fluff (remember, there aren't that many marines around). That kind of fluff would only be found in the head canon of the most hardcore Tau fan.

... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

Also in the intro scene the marines actually got to honourable mele combat! Survived supporting fire an all!

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

Hmm, depends on the context. But the average Tau trooper is just that - an average Tau trooper. He's not a genetically engineered transhuman with gene-seed and power armour forged with technology from the Great Crusade-era. And there are only a million Astartes around - obviously they have to be OP to do their jobs. You can't have billions of Tau warriors with the same skills without completely breaking the setting. What's to stop them from conquering the whole galaxy without any effort then? How would the Imperial Guard even fight them?

 EngulfedObject wrote:
How would the Imperial Guard even fight them?

Overpowered murderous xenos that can fly, have titan-strength arm weapons and are somehow insanely technologically advanced? Send in the next wave, i say!

movie tau..is more about their tech..
closest thing i can think of from movies is this..

as a example of a nasty battlesuit moments.

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

You just described why it's ridiculous. Not to mention that again, that Fire Warrior was empowered by Khorne.

 koooaei wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
How would the Imperial Guard even fight them?

Overpowered murderous xenos that can fly, have titan-strength arm weapons and are somehow insanely technologically advanced? Send in the next wave, i say!

Well not if a single Fire Warrior can take on 20 marines! No more Imperial Guard to send, the last survivors are already being trained as Gue'vesa!

No.
No.
No.

and No.

I have a hard enough time choking on the robo-chicken leg, token bait, marxist-treky, shas'bot faction as is.

I would rather see a disco version of our beloved bell bottom space knights than consider a 'movie' version of the toe.. I mean Tau.

The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

Actually it's quite the opposite. It's stronger then a lasgun but power armor can resist it. It's IOM plasma that blows holes through power armor.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
No more Imperial Guard to send

No more Guards left? Send in the next wave, i say!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

Actually it's quite the opposite. It's stronger then a lasgun but power armor can resist it. It's IOM plasma that blows holes through power armor.

Hey, hey! Fluff conflict! How interesting! Which one should we trust more?

Read the Damocles collection of books. It's mostly from a Marines perspective, and they hate pulse rifles because it keeps blowing through their armor.

Has a nice bit with a crisis suit popping a marines head like a watermelon too. I'm sure they're resistant in most places on the armor, but in thinner areas I imagine. Doesn't really state where the chunks are being blown through.

Yep, that Damocles source material sounds a bit ignorant if true. Some authors don't research.

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

BS3 isn't that bad when you realize that the Imperial guard consist of the cream of the crop of conventional military forces across the IOM. BS4 and up is proably intended to be "super human marksmanship skill"

BrianDavion wrote:

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

BS3 isn't that bad when you realize that the Imperial guard consist of the cream of the crop of conventional military forces across the IOM. BS4 and up is proably intended to be "super human marksmanship skill"

You're probably right.

Also doesn't most of their marksman skillage come from their technology? Which is where the Markerlight rules come in. The Tau themselves aren't necesarily better marksmen than humans, they just have better gear to help with aiming and targeting.

This also reminds me of something funny. Despite being a highly advanced race, the Tau don't wear horse shoes for their hooves.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Also doesn't most of their marksman skillage come from their technology? Which is where the Markerlight rules come in. The Tau themselves aren't necesarily better marksmen than humans, they just have better gear to help with aiming and targeting.

Tau are about the same as humans in terms of vision, except for one major discrepancy: Tau do not have contracting irises.

This means that Tau are biologically incapable of adjusting to varying light levels. Either they're biologically adjusted for the bright desert sun, and are completely blind at night or on overcast days, or they are adjusted for the starlit nights, and are blinded by anything brighter than a campfire.

Note that canonically this is not true: According to studio fluff, the lack of a contracting iris actually impairs the Tau's depth perception.

 koooaei wrote:
Hey, hey! Fluff conflict! How interesting! Which one should we trust more?

Well, looking at the stated Astartes numbers, I'd go with the fluff were they don't get blown to bits by rank and file soldiers. Unless these are the rank and file soldiers that can kill 20 Astartes each...

Woah forgot to refresh the page, missed half the discussion!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Note that canonically this is not true: According to studio fluff, the lack of a contracting iris actually impairs the Tau's depth perception.

Yea, screw science and logic, this is a sci-fi fantasy setting! The setting where an author describing a certain faction has them destroying everything else and breaking all the rules in an established universe.

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

It's pretty important to realize that BS3 is... actually pretty freaking impressive. The ability to hit with half of your shots in a tense combat situation, especially when you're on the front line, is pretty freaking godly.

BS5 isn't expert marksmen. It's hilarious-movie-like-360-no-scopes-from-500-yards-with-a-handgun territory.

 Wyzilla wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

You just described why it's ridiculous. Not to mention that again, that Fire Warrior was empowered by Khorne.

That Firewarrior was a military genius when it came to the fighting way of the Monat. According to the Tau codex, he went on to train under Puretide next to Shadowsun and Farsight.
He was empowered by Khorne for less than a minute, allowing him to kill a Lord of change.

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

I'd like to read this mystery novel you speak of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 morganfreeman wrote:

NauticalKendall wrote:
The only thing I would change about Tau, if you where to make them identical to the fluff, is make them BS5, as Fire Warriors are all expert marksmen. And the Pulse rifle rending, as in many novels it's depicted as just blowing holes through marines armor. And remove the rapid fire option. The weapon is unweildly and that's why the Pulse Carbine Exists.

It's pretty important to realize that BS3 is... actually pretty freaking impressive. The ability to hit with half of your shots in a tense combat situation, especially when you're on the front line, is pretty freaking godly.

BS5 isn't expert marksmen. It's hilarious-movie-like-360-no-scopes-from-500-yards-with-a-handgun territory.

It's also important to note that firing actions are an abstraction. They don't actually represent a single, well-aimed shot.

 Archonate wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

You just described why it's ridiculous. Not to mention that again, that Fire Warrior was empowered by Khorne.

That Firewarrior was a military genius when it came to the fighting way of the Monat. According to the Tau codex, he went on to train under Puretide next to Shadowsun and Farsight.
He was empowered by Khorne for less than a minute, allowing him to kill a Lord of change.

Wait this was a thing????


A movie Tau would be one standing WAAAAAAAAAAAAY over there and calling in a drone strike..... MERICA!!!!!

 koooaei wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
How would the Imperial Guard even fight them?

Overpowered murderous xenos that can fly, have titan-strength arm weapons and are somehow insanely technologically advanced? Send in the next wave, i say!

Sounds like Necrons and Eldar

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

Yep, because Marines are considerably more dangerous than Fire Warriors.

On average, anyway.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
... So it is ridiculous when a single Fire Warrior in a novel destroys an entire army on his own but it's fine when marines do it in every novel?

Yep, because Marines are considerably more dangerous than Fire Warriors.

On average, anyway.

basicly Marines being fluffed to be epicly awesome is an eistablished eneugh part of the setting that it's kinda the norm

To be fair, Space Marines conquered an entire galaxy in 200 years. Even if they fought in greater concentrations back then that's kinda impressive.

Even more so that they accomplished it while goofing off as much as they appear to do in the Horus Heresy series.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
To be fair, Space Marines conquered an entire galaxy in 200 years. Even if they fought in greater concentrations back then that's kinda impressive.

Even more so that they accomplished it while goofing off as much as they appear to do in the Horus Heresy series.

To Be Fair: (and unless I'm mistaken) they did not conquer the Entire Galaxy . They re-conquered/re-united human worlds (and did away with Xenos that interfered with that) that were connected by easily traversed warp routes. It was probably in the order of .5 to 2 million worlds, depending on the wars of conquest conducted post Heresy, and world lost since then to bring us up to the approximate current number of 1 million.

Nothing to sniff at for sure, and I agree with the sentiment that the SM must have been pretty dam awesome to do that, but it was hardly the Entire Galaxy .