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Say I have 3 drop pods - 2 with dreadnoughts and 1 death storm. On turn one I drop two dreadnoughts. On the round that the death storm arrives, the dreadnoughts are already in close combat. If I drop the death storm drop pod next to the close combat, will the death storm fire at both the enemy unit and my dreadnought? that would be sweet because whirlwind won't hurt the dreadnought. My gut feeling is it should because death storm fires at indiscriminately at friendly and enemy units alike, but does this override the can't fire into an assault rule?

Thanks.

Can't fire into close combat without special permission.

The Automated Weapons rule* for the Deathstorm Drop Pod is that special permission. "...it opens fire indiscriminately in its first Shooting phase. Each unit (enemy or friendly) within 12" of the model's weapons mounts comes under attack from a hail of fire which sweeps the surrounding area."

* IA2E2 pg 161 & Forge World Horus Heresy FAQ

RAW yes, and I love it that way but will it be taken that way on the table top, well that is probably dependent on the person

 Carlson793 wrote:
The Automated Weapons rule* for the Deathstorm Drop Pod is that special permission. "...it opens fire indiscriminately in its first Shooting phase. Each unit (enemy or friendly) within 12" of the model's weapons mounts comes under attack from a hail of fire which sweeps the surrounding area."

* IA2E2 pg 161 & Forge World Horus Heresy FAQ

That's not permission to fire into combat so no it can't

You cannot target close combat. Technically there is no target here.

HIWPI - treat the combat as 1 unit and fire at it. (cause thats cool)

But the rule does lack the ability to shoot into combat so i dont get upset when my opponent says no to it.

As far as I can tell it would hit anyone, as it does not target units, just hits them. I would view it as any template that scattered over cc.

 Harial89 wrote:
HIWPI - treat the combat as 1 unit and fire at it. (cause thats cool)

But the rule does lack the ability to shoot into combat so i dont get upset when my opponent says no to it.

Again: the prohibition on shooting in to targetting is enacted by virtue of you not being able to Target such a unit. Target is a well defined term in 40k.

There is no Target for this attack.

Nova witch fire powers specifically says that it can target and attack units regardless of them being locked in combat. Seems like that establishes precedent.

It would be different if it said something like "every unit within 12 inches takes D6 S6 hits or something". IMO anything that has a ranged weapon profile needs to target to be resolved.

Thanks everyone. Some people say yes and some people say no - as much as I want it to fire at a close combat, it seems I won't get the answer on a forum.

Good pick up on Nova as a precedent of sorts, but the naysayers will rightly say this is an example of an explicit permission whereas automated weapons do not state the same.

I guess the matter boils down to [does indiscriminately fire at all models friend or foe within 12"constitute a permission?].

I have emailed FW as to what their intention was and will post the response if/when received.

Evil Party Girl wrote:
Thanks everyone. Some people say yes and some people say no - as much as I want it to fire at a close combat, it seems I won't get the answer on a forum.

Good pick up on Nova as a precedent of sorts, but the naysayers will rightly say this is an example of an explicit permission whereas automated weapons do not state the same.

I guess the matter boils down to [does indiscriminately fire at all models friend or foe within 12"constitute a permission?].

I have emailed FW as to what their intention was and will post the response if/when received.

Forgeworld is good about getting back to you so I'm sure you'll get an answer. However, the issue with any email response (from anyone) is that they can never possibly be binding unless your opponent sends the same email and gets the same answer himself. And then you have to keep doing that for every naysayer opponent you run into...that's why companies should put out FAQs or publicly answer questions via forums, etc, which GW has again cycled away from doing for the most part.

However, by the RAW, the Deathstorm still need to fulfill the basic requirements to be able to fire at a unit within 12": The unit has to be within line of sight (unless the Deathstorm is firing a barrage weapon, of course) and not locked in combat. That is because these are restrictions, while the Automated Weapons rule only gives you permission to fire at all units within 12", and permissions do not override restrictions except when they specifically say that they do.

If you'd like to read more on why permissions do not override restrictions except when they say they do, you can check out the link in my sig about codex not overriding the rulebook (I talk about it more in that post).


And P.S. - my bet is that FW tells you that yes it does get to fire into combat, even though I do not believe this is correct by the RAW.

This is FW response as to the intention of the Deathstorm Drop Pod Automated Weapons rule:

Hi there

Thanks for your email. The Deathstorm cannot shoot units in close combat as it's attacks are resolved as normal shooting attacks.


If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.


Regards,
Forge World

Personally, I think there's nothing normal about the deathstorm's shooting attacks as it breaks about every other rule.. but there it is.