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Alright, some of you may know I'm a returning player from years and years ago in 3rd edition. Some rules now that I'm still kind of learning may be really common for everyone, but I'm kind of hoping for both an explanation "and" thoughts about whether Look Out Sir makes sense. I know I can look in the BRB, but I found the wording somewhat vague.

So the scenario:
Can be found here: https://youtu.be/jOlfsMa59jM?list=PLliZQodsai-jz0qaLg_s5fmKO-tqF7nJS

I was watching a batrep for miniwargaming.com on youtube between Steve playing his Eldar and this dude named Julio playing GK. Julio placed his Draigo and his Librarian both in a squad with a bunch of termies, and during turns when Steve fired all of his Eldar's guns at the Draigo unit, he (Julio) continually used the Look Out Sir rolls to specifically tank all the hits on Draigo since Draigo had the highest defense in the unit.

Now, I looked at the rule here in the BRB and it does say character:
When a Wound is allocated to one of your non-vehicle characters, and there is another model from the same unit within 6", he is allowed a Look Out, Sir attempt. This represents the character ducking back further into the unit, holding a comrade in the line of fire, or being pushed aside by a selfless ally. If no model is in range, then you cannot make a Look Out, Sir attempt.

it also further states:
If the unit only consists of characters, a Look Out, Sir attempt can still be made, with the closest character within 6" taking the place of the erstwhile victim if the roll is passed. Only one Look Out, Sir attempt can be made per Wound allocated – once the Wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made.

Given that other models in the unit technically were "not" characters, does this mean that Julio should have been forced to take the wounds on the normal terminators first before being allowed to use Draigo as a shield?

Now, keep in mind I could have asked this in the Rules forum, but I also had a further thought that made me think it might make more sense in the general forum. In one of the other threads we were talking about the use of storm shields and I also started to wonder if there were any dedicated Look Out Sir models. For instance, are there any armies who literally have a model whose sole purpose is to try and soak hits up for his unit, maybe a trooper type that has a higher toughness or something?

To Summarize my questions:
1. Was Julio technically allowed to use a character (Draigo) to tank damage for non character models?
2. If not, "should" characters be allowed to do this?
3. Are there any troops solely dedicated to being Look Out Sir bullet sponges for units in any armies?
4. And finally, if not, then should there be a trooper in a unit for this purpose? I'd totally give a dude two storm shields if I could get a better save on him to help a unit last long enough to reach the Assault for instance. Just for sheer giggles, but tactically I wondered if someone already filled a role like that someplace.

Any help explaining is appreciated, I just wanna know how this all works. Sometimes the batreps I watch don't make any sense to me, because I have a feeling I am either misunderstanding a rule or they are actually flubbing the rule in the show.

If Draigo was tanking then he was the closest model to the unit shooting his unit and wounds were being allocated to him. He could have LOS those wounds onto his unit, but most likely chose not to. If Draigo was down to one or two wounds, he would probably LOS them all.

I suppose there might have been something else going on but I can't watch the video right now.

The closest model was a librarian who was using look out sir.

The librarian was in base contact with 2 terminators and draigo.

Since there were 3 models equidistant from the librarian the controlling player chose which one to apply the look out sir hits too.

I'm no rules expert, but as far as I know, it was legal.

Is it legal? Yes. Should I be legal? No, it's probably the most obnoxious rule in the game atm and it takes countless time to roll.

Alrighty Sirs. I think I understand better what it was that was happening now and why it confused me.

I did go back and really look hard at the video though to make sure, and based on what is said above about the librarian being the one actually taking the Look Out Sirs, the move actually wasn't legal. The positioning of the librarian (the one who had the staff) was on the far side of the Draigo star with Draigo in the middle. Since the three closest models to the incoming fire were all actually just normal terminators, he (Julio) should not have been able to take the Look Out Sirs at all until those Termies were killed.

************************** Unit spread *********************************

****************************Warpspiders********************************
***************************************************************************
Knight********************Termy****Termy***********Guardians*********
************************Termy**Draigo**Termy**************************
*******************************Termy***Libby************Guardians********
********************************************************Flamer guys (forget the name)


I looked really close at the video near the end to make sure I was looking at the right models. At the end he only had Draigo and his librarian left out of the unit. By checking that, I was able to make certain I was looking at the "right" models.

Again though, based on the above, he actually "was" legal in doing the Look Out Sirs on one unit of Guardians (I think that's what they were), in the beginning of the Shooting phase, but that was literally the only unit that was physically closest to the Librarian in the Draigostar. He continued to then just use the Look Out Sir rule though on every single other unit that fired, and he had been surrounded in an arc of units, the others of which were nowhere near Draigo or the Librarian.

I think maybe they weren't bothering to take out the closest models in this instance and just let it go, since it was a friendly game.

In either case, I see how it works now. I probably wouldn't have let him do it if he couldn't position his unit correctly "to" do it, but at least I see it now. I will admit though, while there is a certain level of strategy involved with using a tough unit to bullet sponge, I sorta feel like the way the rule was written meant that officers could only "be" that bullet sponge if "only other officers" were left in the group. I kinda feel like the rule itself needs clarification or better wording.

Normally I wouldn't be so focused on the rule either, but this seemed incredibly obnoxious and unfair in my eyes.

As to your other questions, I don't know of too many models specifically designed for LOS, but the first that comes to mind is the Farsight bodyguards. I'm pretty sure they auto-pass any LOS made against commander farsight.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Alrighty Sirs. I think I understand better what it was that was happening now and why it confused me.

I did go back and really look hard at the video though to make sure, and based on what is said above about the librarian being the one actually taking the Look Out Sirs, the move actually wasn't legal. The positioning of the librarian (the one who had the staff) was on the far side of the Draigo star with Draigo in the middle. Since the three closest models to the incoming fire were all actually just normal terminators, he (Julio) should not have been able to take the Look Out Sirs at all until those Termies were killed.

************************** Unit spread *********************************

****************************Warpspiders********************************
***************************************************************************
Knight********************Termy****Termy***********Guardians*********
************************Termy**Draigo**Termy**************************
*******************************Termy***Libby************Guardians********
********************************************************Flamer guys (forget the name)


I looked really close at the video near the end to make sure I was looking at the right models. At the end he only had Draigo and his librarian left out of the unit. By checking that, I was able to make certain I was looking at the "right" models.

Again though, based on the above, he actually "was" legal in doing the Look Out Sirs on one unit of Guardians (I think that's what they were), in the beginning of the Shooting phase, but that was literally the only unit that was physically closest to the Librarian in the Draigostar. He continued to then just use the Look Out Sir rule though on every single other unit that fired, and he had been surrounded in an arc of units, the others of which were nowhere near Draigo or the Librarian.

I think maybe they weren't bothering to take out the closest models in this instance and just let it go, since it was a friendly game.

In either case, I see how it works now. I probably wouldn't have let him do it if he couldn't position his unit correctly "to" do it, but at least I see it now. I will admit though, while there is a certain level of strategy involved with using a tough unit to bullet sponge, I sorta feel like the way the rule was written meant that officers could only "be" that bullet sponge if "only other officers" were left in the group. I kinda feel like the rule itself needs clarification or better wording.

Normally I wouldn't be so focused on the rule either, but this seemed incredibly obnoxious and unfair in my eyes.

Looking at it there was an apothecary in the paladin squad, so he could LOS from him. It was hard to tell what was going on but in general I'd say they weren't following the rules too closely.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Alrighty Sirs. I think I understand better what it was that was happening now and why it confused me.

I did go back and really look hard at the video though to make sure, and based on what is said above about the librarian being the one actually taking the Look Out Sirs, the move actually wasn't legal. The positioning of the librarian (the one who had the staff) was on the far side of the Draigo star with Draigo in the middle. Since the three closest models to the incoming fire were all actually just normal terminators, he (Julio) should not have been able to take the Look Out Sirs at all until those Termies were killed.

************************** Unit spread *********************************

****************************Warpspiders********************************
***************************************************************************
Knight********************Termy****Termy***********Guardians*********
************************Termy**Draigo**Termy**************************
*******************************Termy***Libby************Guardians********
********************************************************Flamer guys (forget the name)


I looked really close at the video near the end to make sure I was looking at the right models. At the end he only had Draigo and his librarian left out of the unit. By checking that, I was able to make certain I was looking at the "right" models.

Again though, based on the above, he actually "was" legal in doing the Look Out Sirs on one unit of Guardians (I think that's what they were), in the beginning of the Shooting phase, but that was literally the only unit that was physically closest to the Librarian in the Draigostar. He continued to then just use the Look Out Sir rule though on every single other unit that fired, and he had been surrounded in an arc of units, the others of which were nowhere near Draigo or the Librarian.

I think maybe they weren't bothering to take out the closest models in this instance and just let it go, since it was a friendly game.

In either case, I see how it works now. I probably wouldn't have let him do it if he couldn't position his unit correctly "to" do it, but at least I see it now. I will admit though, while there is a certain level of strategy involved with using a tough unit to bullet sponge, I sorta feel like the way the rule was written meant that officers could only "be" that bullet sponge if "only other officers" were left in the group. I kinda feel like the rule itself needs clarification or better wording.

Normally I wouldn't be so focused on the rule either, but this seemed incredibly obnoxious and unfair in my eyes.

You are not seeing things correctly. As you can see from the two screen grabs the Librarian, a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit. Some might argue the Apothecary, also a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit but its a moot argument as the end result is the same. The controlling player may attempt LOS rolls when either of those models has a wound allocated to it. Draigo was a legitimate model to reallocate the wounds to after a successful LOS roll. Nothing rule breaking happened here.

 DJGietzen wrote:



You are not seeing things correctly. As you can see from the two screen grabs the Librarian, a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit. Some might argue the Apothecary, also a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit but its a moot argument as the end result is the same. The controlling player may attempt LOS rolls when either of those models has a wound allocated to it. Draigo was a legitimate model to reallocate the wounds to after a successful LOS roll. Nothing rule breaking happened here.

Nah, I did see that. I even mentioned it above. You're only showing two units in that pic, ignoring all the other units to the northeast, north and even the knight to the west who also shot at the unit. He used Look Out Sir on every single unit, and at least 3 of those units were closest to normal Termies, not the Libby. What I don't know about is the above mentioned Apothecary. That I honestly did not see, so I'm not sure which model that would be. If an Apothecary is indeed one of the top left Termies, then I could understand what I was seeing being a misconstruction of my perception, but it's also why I wanted an explanation.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:



You are not seeing things correctly. As you can see from the two screen grabs the Librarian, a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit. Some might argue the Apothecary, also a character, is the closest model to the shooting unit but its a moot argument as the end result is the same. The controlling player may attempt LOS rolls when either of those models has a wound allocated to it. Draigo was a legitimate model to reallocate the wounds to after a successful LOS roll. Nothing rule breaking happened here.

Nah, I did see that. I even mentioned it above. You're only showing two units in that pic, ignoring all the other units to the northeast, north and even the knight to the west who also shot at the unit. He used Look Out Sir on every single unit, and at least 3 of those units were closest to normal Termies, not the Libby. What I don't know about is the above mentioned Apothecary. That I honestly did not see, so I'm not sure which model that would be. If an Apothecary is indeed one of the top left Termies, then I could understand what I was seeing being a misconstruction of my perception, but it's also why I wanted an explanation.

I just went and watched that shooting phase, and you are wrong. The warpspiders killed one terminator (no look out sirs), the guardians on top of the building killed one and wounded the libby (no lookout sirs), the knight didn't hit with its shots (no look out sirs), all the wounds the hawks caused were saved (no look out sirs), and then everything else the libby was closest so he looked out sir'd to Draigo as he is allowed to.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:


I just went and watched that shooting phase, and you are wrong. The warpspiders killed one terminator (no look out sirs), the guardians on top of the building killed one and wounded the libby (no lookout sirs), the knight didn't hit with its shots (no look out sirs), all the wounds the hawks caused were saved (no look out sirs), and then everything else the libby was closest so he looked out sir'd to Draigo as he is allowed to.

I just went and watched again and you're right. I was wrong. I do understand what it is I'm seeing though now, so I appreciate everyone taking the time to fully explain everything to me. I just never had to deal with anything like that before from back when I used to play. It seems like I still have a ton to learn.