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So, the Space Marines are loosely bound by the Adeptus Astartes, Regulating the size of companies and what equipment they can use. However some of the more "specialized" chapters have access to vehicles, units, and equipment that other chapters and "Vanilla" chapters don't. I get it, that's what makes them so unique. What I don't get though is the reverse. Why don't the Deathwing get to ride into battle in a Stormraven, for instance? Or with a Ironclad Dread? These are semi-standardized pieces of equipment it seems since they're blanketed across the other Codex units.

Not to mention, fluff aside, GW would also definitely sell a lot more models too I'm betting.

This is You Make Da Call, you might want to post the question in General Discussion or Background.

(I believe the explanation is that the Stormraven is a recently-discovered STC and the Mechanicum is giving them to Codex Chapters first because they don't trust the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves)

 Carpediem833 wrote:
So, the Space Marines are loosely bound by the Adeptus Astartes,.

You mean the Codex Astartes.

'Adeptus Astartes' is just the official name for the Space Marines.



As for the question, I would assume in a lot of cases that the 'specialist' Chapters don't use the standard codex equipment precisely because they have their own alternatives. They have no need for them.


Until GW revise their codex and add them in, of course.

Technology is slow to be adapted and fully trusted in the IoM, the Razorback for example has been in service for a good 4000 years, but apparently, is still somewhat distrusted still.

The Stormraven is a new design, while the exact age of it isn't exactly detailed out the C: SM fluff says that it's only seeing general deployment due to the highly troubled times suggesting to me that the design is likely only seeing service with more then just blood angels and grey knights chapters in M.41. so chances are a LOT of chapters may not trust it yet. this proably explains why the dark angels and space wolves haven't picked it up. the Dark Angels just don't think the designs proven itself. the space wolves meanwhile have their own design (one that I suspect dates back much longer) that the storm raven would have to compete with.

The Adeptus Mechanicus builds most of the equipment used by SM Chapters. The Adeptus Mechanicus remembers which SM Chapters don't share their finds. Yes, the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have found things they've not shared with the Mechanicus, but when you feth with the Mechanicus, the Mechanicus feths with you. Those Chapters have access to unique gear and don't have access to some non-unique gear because of that. Because the Razorback has only been around to 4000 years, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels should never have access to grav guns or Razorbacks because if you're not sharing technology, technology doesn't get shared.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
The Adeptus Mechanicus builds most of the equipment used by SM Chapters. The Adeptus Mechanicus remembers which SM Chapters don't share their finds. Yes, the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have found things they've not shared with the Mechanicus, but when you feth with the Mechanicus, the Mechanicus feths with you. Those Chapters have access to unique gear and don't have access to some non-unique gear because of that. Because the Razorback has only been around to 4000 years, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels should never have access to grav guns or Razorbacks because if you're not sharing technology, technology doesn't get shared.

it's possiable the Razorback is such a simple design and such a minimal alteration of the Rhino the Mechanius felt it'd not be worth making a point over. heck it's possiable the Razorback isn't primarily produced by itself, but is actually MOSTLY produced as a simple upgrade kit for rhinos.

Some of the old chapters probably have things like stormbirds and when you have thunderhawks, why do you need smaller stuff? Marines are the cavalry, they don't need lots of additional air support.

I wonder if any forgeworlds take a go slow approach if a chapter chews through too much gear all the time? It is supposed to be sacred afterall.

Computron wrote:
Some of the old chapters probably have things like stormbirds and when you have thunderhawks, why do you need smaller stuff?

Smaller craft have an easier time evading anti-aircraft weapons.

Thunderhawks are the smaller, cheaper version (of a Stormbird), which is the funny part!

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Computron wrote:
Some of the old chapters probably have things like stormbirds and when you have thunderhawks, why do you need smaller stuff?

Smaller craft have an easier time evading anti-aircraft weapons.

Marines deploy from space, from huge ships which have orbital bombardment capabilities. That's why they deploy via drop pods moving at ballistic speeds. They don't leave stuff in the air for long enough to worry about most AA.

Computron wrote:
That's why they deploy via drop pods moving at ballistic speeds. They don't leave stuff in the air for long enough to worry about most AA.

Nonsense. You can easily shoot down incoming ballistic missiles (by direct hits, not just proximity nukes) with 1950s technology, which should make a drop pod assault into a well-defended target a suicide mission. Space marines are just lucky that pretty much everyone they fight is stuck at a WWII (or worse) level of technology and doesn't know how to make a decent SAM network. A drop pod assault on an alternate-universe US/USSR with no treaty limitations on anti-missile weapons would involve sacrificing several entire chapters to maybe have a chance of landing a squad or two.

 Peregrine wrote:

Computron wrote:
That's why they deploy via drop pods moving at ballistic speeds. They don't leave stuff in the air for long enough to worry about most AA.

Nonsense. You can easily shoot down incoming ballistic missiles

And yet that doesn't happen in 40k

Space marines are just lucky that pretty much everyone they fight is stuck at a WWII (or worse) level of technology and doesn't know how to make a decent SAM network.

If such networks existed then filling the air with additional targets in the form of small fighter craft about the size of a drop pod is hardly sensible.

 Peregrine wrote:

Computron wrote:
That's why they deploy via drop pods moving at ballistic speeds. They don't leave stuff in the air for long enough to worry about most AA.

Nonsense. You can easily shoot down incoming ballistic missiles (by direct hits, not just proximity nukes) with 1950s technology, which should make a drop pod assault into a well-defended target a suicide mission. Space marines are just lucky that pretty much everyone they fight is stuck at a WWII (or worse) level of technology and doesn't know how to make a decent SAM network. A drop pod assault on an alternate-universe US/USSR with no treaty limitations on anti-missile weapons would involve sacrificing several entire chapters to maybe have a chance of landing a squad or two.

I imagine drop pods are often preceeded by precision bombardment and air strikes to ensure AA is a minimal problem.

in most of the fluff you typically see thunderhawk insertions first then drop pods.

Computron wrote:
And yet that doesn't happen in 40k

Because, like I said, virtually everyone in 40k is stuck in a WWII or earlier state of technology. The fact that you can shoot down drop pods with 1950s SAMs doesn't mean much when you're stuck with 1930s-era AA guns on hand-operated turrets (which are still priceless "lost technology", so they have to be kept in a stasis field in some random fortress and never put on a battlefield where they might be destroyed).

If such networks existed then filling the air with additional targets in the form of small fighter craft about the size of a drop pod is hardly sensible.

Of course it's sensible, because a smaller target can maneuver to avoid incoming shots, fly low enough that it's within the missile's minimum range, etc. Incoming ballistic missiles/drop pods/etc are easy to hit because they're a very predictable target. All you have to do is some basic math to figure out where to put a missile so that the target flies right into it.

Given the small number of marine craft, what use are they really against AA defences in a hive? Any craft would be of more use in getting marines off the ground which would favour craft with a transport capacity.

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine drop pods are often preceeded by precision bombardment and air strikes to ensure AA is a minimal problem.

Then why bother with the marines at all? If you're just going to kill everything with the kind of orbital bombardment required to destroy armored missile silos then it's not like a few bolter shells are going to contribute very much. Just replace the drop pods with more nukes.

 Peregrine wrote:
Incoming ballistic missiles/drop pods/etc are easy to hit because they're a very predictable target.

Drop pods are not purely ballistic, they are fired at huge speed but they are manoeuvrable. CSM states that they are directed to their targets, not aimed which is how they're so hard to hit.

 Peregrine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine drop pods are often preceeded by precision bombardment and air strikes to ensure AA is a minimal problem.

Then why bother with the marines at all? If you're just going to kill everything with the kind of orbital bombardment required to destroy armored missile silos then it's not like a few bolter shells are going to contribute very much. Just replace the drop pods with more nukes.

because most surface to air missiles aren't in Silos deep in the ground. and even when they are you don't need to nesscarily target the missile. you could instead attack the radar sites.

Think modern Wild Weasel missions.

 Peregrine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine drop pods are often preceeded by precision bombardment and air strikes to ensure AA is a minimal problem.

Then why bother with the marines at all? If you're just going to kill everything with the kind of orbital bombardment required to destroy armored missile silos then it's not like a few bolter shells are going to contribute very much. Just replace the drop pods with more nukes.

Labs, workshops, artifacts that the IOM wants intact, maybe the HQ is too far below ground to hit and confirmation is needed of the kill.
IOM likely wants to save as much infrastructure, tech and even people as possible, they can't use exterminatus everytime or they'll weaken themselves too much.

In storm of iron, they drop a first wave of unmanned gun pods to distract enemy gunners and defences.

This on top of precise orbital bombardment.

They are noyt suicidal, they do have tactics to confuse defences.

Computron wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I imagine drop pods are often preceeded by precision bombardment and air strikes to ensure AA is a minimal problem.

Then why bother with the marines at all? If you're just going to kill everything with the kind of orbital bombardment required to destroy armored missile silos then it's not like a few bolter shells are going to contribute very much. Just replace the drop pods with more nukes.

Labs, workshops, artifacts that the IOM wants intact, maybe the HQ is too far below ground to hit and confirmation is needed of the kill.
IOM likely wants to save as much infrastructure, tech and even people as possible, they can't use exterminatus everytime or they'll weaken themselves too much.

Exterminatus is meant as a last-ditch effort, when the planet is beyond retaking. (Planetary-scale daemonic incursions, overwhelming Tyranid hive-fleet assault, complete Necron Tomb-World awakening, etc.) And before that, everything of value are evacuated from planet-side.

Very few battles in 40k are written with any sort of realism in mind. Marines will fly half a dozen Thunderhawks onto worlds with thousands of interceptor aircraft and tens of thousands of AA weapons, and never have to do more than jink around a bit. Drop pods will fall onto entrenched positions with sheets of AA fire filling the sky and never once ever be hit.

Stuff happens in 40k because the writers write it that way, not really due to any reflection of the capabilities and methods and equipment used by the various factions.

We have the stats on many 40k vehicles. With a Thunderhawk's speed, basically anything fighter introduced since the late 1950's could intercept and destroy one. Auto-tracking ground defenses would have zero problems destroying a Thunderhawk, but they never do. It's just the nature of 40k.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Very few battles in 40k are written with any sort of realism in mind. Marines will fly half a dozen Thunderhawks onto worlds with thousands of interceptor aircraft and tens of thousands of AA weapons, and never have to do more than jink around a bit. Drop pods will fall onto entrenched positions with sheets of AA fire filling the sky and never once ever be hit.

Stuff happens in 40k because the writers write it that way, not really due to any reflection of the capabilities and methods and equipment used by the various factions.

We have the stats on many 40k vehicles. With a Thunderhawk's speed, basically anything fighter introduced since the late 1950's could intercept and destroy one. Auto-tracking ground defenses would have zero problems destroying a Thunderhawk, but they never do. It's just the nature of 40k.

Ya know, if 40k wanted to be sensible, Terminators being teleported to destroy air defenses would be the most reasonable first strike option.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Very few battles in 40k are written with any sort of realism in mind. Marines will fly half a dozen Thunderhawks onto worlds with thousands of interceptor aircraft and tens of thousands of AA weapons, and never have to do more than jink around a bit. Drop pods will fall onto entrenched positions with sheets of AA fire filling the sky and never once ever be hit.

Stuff happens in 40k because the writers write it that way, not really due to any reflection of the capabilities and methods and equipment used by the various factions.

We have the stats on many 40k vehicles. With a Thunderhawk's speed, basically anything fighter introduced since the late 1950's could intercept and destroy one. Auto-tracking ground defenses would have zero problems destroying a Thunderhawk, but they never do. It's just the nature of 40k.

Ya know, if 40k wanted to be sensible, Terminators being teleported to destroy air defenses would be the most reasonable first strike option.

Or just lob one lance strike on the enemy position and glass the continent.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Very few battles in 40k are written with any sort of realism in mind. Marines will fly half a dozen Thunderhawks onto worlds with thousands of interceptor aircraft and tens of thousands of AA weapons, and never have to do more than jink around a bit. Drop pods will fall onto entrenched positions with sheets of AA fire filling the sky and never once ever be hit.

Stuff happens in 40k because the writers write it that way, not really due to any reflection of the capabilities and methods and equipment used by the various factions.

We have the stats on many 40k vehicles. With a Thunderhawk's speed, basically anything fighter introduced since the late 1950's could intercept and destroy one. Auto-tracking ground defenses would have zero problems destroying a Thunderhawk, but they never do. It's just the nature of 40k.

Ya know, if 40k wanted to be sensible, Terminators being teleported to destroy air defenses would be the most reasonable first strike option.

Or just lob one lance strike on enemy position and glass the continent.

Assuming the lance battery can pierce planetary shields.

I grew up on Master of Orion- planets have shields if they're well-defended.

Lance Batteries are designed to penetrate shields, they literally exist to knock down the shields on enemy warships.

Given the size of warships in 40k, ground installations with shields tend to be fitted with shields scavenged off warships.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Lance Batteries are designed to penetrate shields, they literally exist to knock down the shields on enemy warships.

Given the size of warships in 40k, ground installations with shields tend to be fitted with shields scavenged off warships.

Plus they're more then enough powerful to wipe out entire hive cities. Same with torpedoes. There's simple no reasonable point for there to even fight for planets anymore besides mining precious metals. If the Imperium had a brain, they'd focus on building self-contained ecosystems within mobile space stations that only stop to scoop up minerals from planets or suck up nebulae for hydrogen to power fusion reactors. Anything that looks at them funny gets a barrage of lance fire.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Lance Batteries are designed to penetrate shields, they literally exist to knock down the shields on enemy warships.

Given the size of warships in 40k, ground installations with shields tend to be fitted with shields scavenged off warships.

Plus they're more then enough powerful to wipe out entire hive cities. Same with torpedoes. There's simple no reasonable point for there to even fight for planets anymore besides mining precious metals. If the Imperium had a brain, they'd focus on building self-contained ecosystems within mobile space stations that only stop to scoop up minerals from planets or suck up nebulae for hydrogen to power fusion reactors. Anything that looks at them funny gets a barrage of lance fire.

Until Will Smith and Jeff Goldbloom fly a scavenged fighter into the Imperial ship and destroy it from the inside with a nuke.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Lance Batteries are designed to penetrate shields, they literally exist to knock down the shields on enemy warships.

Given the size of warships in 40k, ground installations with shields tend to be fitted with shields scavenged off warships.

They really don't. Planetary fortifications, and anti-orbit defence lasers, are something even 40k capital ships have to be scared of. See Only War and Siege of Vraks, where even a Dark Angels Battle Barge daren't poke its nose over the horizon for fear of it being shot off.

locarno24 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Lance Batteries are designed to penetrate shields, they literally exist to knock down the shields on enemy warships.

Given the size of warships in 40k, ground installations with shields tend to be fitted with shields scavenged off warships.

They really don't. Planetary fortifications, and anti-orbit defence lasers, are something even 40k capital ships have to be scared of. See Only War and Siege of Vraks, where even a Dark Angels Battle Barge daren't poke its nose over the horizon for fear of it being shot off.

Except all you have to do is fire kinetic weapons at significant range that the planet can't even target you, meanwhile the projectiles from say a Macrocannon barrage were calculated to have the planet crash into them.