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A problem I have been having for a long time and i am looking for some advice. I collect Eldar, Blood Angers and I am starting Harlequins so any advice related to them would help.
Thanks in advance.

Double them out. That's the only reliable way I've done it.
Like all things in the Necron codex, they require a lot of shooting to take down.

Not that many st10 HRoF guns in the game to double them out. And it needs to be HRoF due to the 3++. A large blast such as a demolisher cannon might suffice for a single kill on average, but only if you get 3 or 4 under the template.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Serp shields have the same chance of wounding a wraith as a tac marine (if no rp). As do all st7 weaponary with ap4 or worse.

Typically just weight of fire, regardless of AP. S6 or 7 in high volumes will do wonders, and as Eldar that shouldn't be a problem at all.

Small arms fire can kill them.
Don't count too much on cc.

Force saves. they have a 3++ so not much is gonna hurt them... Bolters on 5+ heavy bolters on 4+... much like storm shield terminators, volume of fire. it doesn't necessarily have to double them out, just pile on the wounds and eventually something will stick.

Strength D weapons. Use a Lynx.

 Marsyas wrote:
Strength D weapons. Use a Lynx.

...you don't need a Superheavy LoW to take out 40 point models.

Requizen wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:
Strength D weapons. Use a Lynx.

...you don't need a Superheavy LoW to take out 40 point models.

No, you don't. But it's hilarious to see it happen.

you play eldar, you have str 7 shooting out the wazoo...

force a lot of wounds on them and they will die.

 Marsyas wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:
Strength D weapons. Use a Lynx.

...you don't need a Superheavy LoW to take out 40 point models.

:
No, you don't. But it's hilarious to see it happen.

Even D weapons do not do a good job anymore since they need 6's vs that 3++

Fragile wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Marsyas wrote:
Strength D weapons. Use a Lynx.

...you don't need a Superheavy LoW to take out 40 point models.

:
No, you don't. But it's hilarious to see it happen.

Even D weapons do not do a good job anymore since they need 6's vs that 3++

Its the best chance since if it doesnt isnta gib on 6s it still doubles down at st10 with no FNrP allowed

the numbers are still pretty insane for small arms even without RP

The best way to deal with them is the old school way. shoot as many ST7 as you possibly can.

Edit: If they do have RP then go for the spider otherwise ignore them or go chump some sacrificial guys at them.

Isn't there like a 30 page thread on this already?

In short - force saves on them. As many as possible. Understand that they can fail 4 out of 5 or pass 12 straight. Just make sure that you keep shooting, and they will fall. 6 wraiths have 12 wounds between them, so that's not impossible to thin down.

Don't shoot high str/low AP unless it's str 10 and you have nothing better to shoot at. Wraiths love it when you pretend that they're tanks, and lob a las cannon shot at them. It's a recipe for sadness when they shrug it off as easily as a lassgun shot

Volume of fire.

27 bolter shots on average per wraith. 162 on average for a squad of six! :(

If you can knock down their T, they will break easier. Things like Rad grenades and enfeeble.

Rad grenade + enfeeble + high volume of S6 = profit.

I think that Necrons in general -- not just Wraiths -- are an out-of-context problem for a lot of armies in how they are currently built. People seem to load up on AP2 weapons to deal with things like Riptides and MEQ. AP2 is useless against Necrons.

Necrons are a classic army of approaching unstoppable undead as seen in a million horror movies. To take them down you need volume of fire. Not high-AP weapons like everyone's beloved plasma. Volume of fire. Against a Wraith or Necron Warrior, a Tau missile pod is superior to a plasma gun. For that matter so are heavy bolters.

For eldar, I've seen wraithknights holding wraiths up. Give it the 5++ and maybe nearby farseer/spirit seer to invis or give it wounds back. Not the best answer. But stall them long enough to kill the rest of the army and win the game.

Here is the previous thread trying to figure out the best ways.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/633319.page

 Bonachinonin wrote:
For eldar, I've seen wraithknights holding wraiths up. Give it the 5++ and maybe nearby farseer/spirit seer to invis or give it wounds back. Not the best answer. But stall them long enough to kill the rest of the army and win the game.

Against a Decurion detachment, the sheer survivability should make that a little harder.

Just done some quick maths. The best point for st5 shot output that I can think of is 3 quad bolter rapiers at 120pts. These will cause 16hits on average, 8 wounds and between 2-3 unsaved wounds. Which becomes 1-1.5 after rp. That is crazy durable considering this is the type of weapon that is supposed to be 'optimal' against wraiths.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Just done some quick maths. The best point for st5 shot output that I can think of is 3 quad bolter rapiers at 120pts. These will cause 16hits on average, 8 wounds and between 2-3 unsaved wounds. Which becomes 1-1.5 after rp. That is crazy durable considering this is the type of weapon that is supposed to be 'optimal' against wraiths.

I don't think anyone was saying S5 was the most optimal against wraiths. If anything it would be S10 and D weapons since they instant death so would be doing 2x wounds for each wound they do.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Just done some quick maths. The best point for st5 shot output that I can think of is 3 quad bolter rapiers at 120pts. These will cause 16hits on average, 8 wounds and between 2-3 unsaved wounds. Which becomes 1-1.5 after rp. That is crazy durable considering this is the type of weapon that is supposed to be 'optimal' against wraiths.

I don't think anyone was saying S5 was the most optimal against wraiths. If anything it would be S10 and D weapons since they instant death so would be doing 2x wounds for each wound they do.

Not really, the price of a D weapon is at least 375(?) which is usually allocated on a per model basis AND unless you roll a 6 they still get their saves. So what we are looking for here is not optimal, but efficient, otherwise we would be saying D weapons are optimal against everything

There's no optimal way to kill wraiths in a non-apoc game other than s7 spam. There are optimal ways to tarpit them, however.

 Quickjager wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Just done some quick maths. The best point for st5 shot output that I can think of is 3 quad bolter rapiers at 120pts. These will cause 16hits on average, 8 wounds and between 2-3 unsaved wounds. Which becomes 1-1.5 after rp. That is crazy durable considering this is the type of weapon that is supposed to be 'optimal' against wraiths.

I don't think anyone was saying S5 was the most optimal against wraiths. If anything it would be S10 and D weapons since they instant death so would be doing 2x wounds for each wound they do.

Not really, the price of a D weapon is at least 375(?) which is usually allocated on a per model basis AND unless you roll a 6 they still get their saves. So what we are looking for here is not optimal, but efficient, otherwise we would be saying D weapons are optimal against everything

Well if you want efficient then it would be S7 then

s7 ap4 or worse to be presice. As better ap tends to cost extra.

Please can anybody name me a platform that can put down 16 st7 hits on average for 120pts... then you can say st7 is more points efficient than a quad bolter battery.
Yes a single st7 is best compared to a single st5, but you have to take in the points it cost to put down those st7 shots. If it cost 300-400pts to put down 16 st7 hits then the quad bolters are indeed more optimal.

Noone's saying you're gona erase a unit per turn with one volley. It's not what optimal means.

Mass poison, spam blasts and pie plates, or tar pit with cheap units. Wraiths are good but the attachment is an enormous point sink - and you don't necessarily need to kill it, just make sure it can't do anything.

But yes, manticores and DE splinters have fared pretty well against mine.

Yep, we've forgotten about poison.

To kill 6 wraiths:

36 wounds. 54 if they have RP. 72 if they have RP, are part of a Decurion, and you haven't killed the Spyder first. Hence: kill the 3 wound 3+, 4/5+FNP Spyder

Assuming the first (or after you have killed the spyder), you probably need to get about 43 str 7 hits on a wraith squad to kill it. Supplement your quality shooting with weight of small arms fire, therefor, to kill wraiths. Be aware that one wraith can still kill a serpent with some decent dice, so dont buy into reducing the squads. You want to kill them.

Just to compare non-RP crons to termie's durability.

6 wraiths need 36 wounds to be killed, 6 termies need all the same 36 wounds to be killed - without ap2 ofc.

Taking t5 into consideration, wraiths do need 1/6 more effort from weapons below s7 to get killed.

So, if you're up to killing wraiths with small arms fire, remember that they're just 1/6 tougher than termies when without RP. However, also don't forget that they're fearless and can't be kited all day unlike termies.