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I know the majority of Necron players are scurrying to the Decurion detachment, but is the added resilience and relentless worth losing OS?

Necrons are already absurdly durable and there are other ways to get a 4+ RP. If you have a block or two of warriors with solid OL/cryptek support with rezorbs they're just as durable against anything except D weapons/ID and can't be denied an objective.

I don't actually have a position yet on this, I just wanted to pump the breaks and have a conversation about the competitive merits.

So far by my estimation, there must be some threshold of RP-able models under which the Decurion loses its punch.

The more non-RP units (aka vehciles and Canopteks) you have in a Decurion detachment, the less the RP boost is actually helping you (although ignoring Crew SHaken/Stunned on vehicles is still nice). At some point in the RP/non-RP ratio, +1 RP isn't as beneficial as OS.

The problem is, bare-bones Crypteks aren't exactly cheap for a T4, 4+ model that doesn't really do much beyond add +1 RP to a single unit. (Add the Invul buff, and Crypteks get even costlier). So It takes a lot of points to make a poor substitute for the Decurion benefits in a non-Decurion army. And then, unlike the Decurion, those benefits can be sniped out.

I'd have to be running like an AV13/14 wall, Flyer spam, or maybe Wraith Spam, to ditch the Decurion for a CAD. I haven't run a non-Decurion Necron detachment since the new codex, so maybe people who have would disagree with me here.

As for crypteks being expensive, sure you could argue that. But orikan is the god of the CAD. I am seriously surprised when a CAD list doesn't include him as the warlord, +1 rp and re-roll 1s for armour saves and he's a beat stick in combat, he's arguably one of the best hq choices in the game but he's probably not worth it in a decurion since you need a court.

Decurion is good but not needed, if you take orikan then the unit you need to survive is even more survivable than it is in a decurion. So if you're not running orikan I would say the decurion is better, but if you are running orikan I would give a slight edge to the CAD due to army flexibility.

I have yet to play in a game where the lack of OS has hurt me more than having the 4+++ (and re-rolling most 1s) has helped. It might happen someday, and on that day I might feel sorry i'm not running a CAD, but for now I have had no regrets in the 20 or so games I've played since the codex dropped.

As for Orikan, I definitely see the benefits of running him in a CAD, but he is also really solid in a Decurion.

(This is expensive... but, lychstar might be worth)

Run Zahndrek as your OL in the reclamation.

Take Orikan in the Court, Take Oberyn in the Court, have another OL in the court w/ a res orb, (veil optional)

Stick that court with sword and board Lychguard.

You've got a 2+, 3++, 4+++ unit that re-rolls saves of 1, retains its 4+++ even against ID and still has warscythe hits and the possibility of popping a res orb. Possibility of two deep strikes per game to get it in various positions, and doesn't scatter when put within 12" of Nem Z.

Expensive, but I think that's as solid of a lychstar as you can run.

I suspect Mission type will have a strong impact on this. In EW missions Decurion is probably always going to be a no brainer. In Maelstrom, I have found OS can make a weak list but with fast OS units a lot tougher to beat, so it is is going to start being a serious consideration in list building.

So far, any game I've played against cad crons has been much easier than any game I've played against decuri-crons, in all mission types.

It depends on what kind of 40k you are playing (casual or competitive) and if you are playing competitive, which format are you playing?

Punisher wrote:
As for crypteks being expensive, sure you could argue that. But orikan is the god of the CAD. I am seriously surprised when a CAD list doesn't include him as the warlord, +1 rp and re-roll 1s for armour saves and he's a beat stick in combat, he's arguably one of the best hq choices in the game but he's probably not worth it in a decurion since you need a court.

Decurion is good but not needed, if you take orikan then the unit you need to survive is even more survivable than it is in a decurion. So if you're not running orikan I would say the decurion is better, but if you are running orikan I would give a slight edge to the CAD due to army flexibility.

I run a destroyer lord as my warlord in Orikan's unit. That way I don't need to care if Orikan transforms because the lord has a res orb, phase shifter, and of course, a nightmare shroud to go along with his giant "I DARE you to shoot me" sign

I won a tournament game with my Dark Eldar this weekend against a decurion. I'd barely put a dent in the 'Crons and I was at less than half strength with most of my remaining units.

The necrons had 4-5 out of 6 objectives throughout most the game, but on turn 5, I overran several objectives with my many Obsec troops and won the game.

For what that's worth.

Thank you for all the input. The Decurion certainly seems like the way to go. But any army with enough late contest-ers like Doc Doom certainly threatens to "get their butt kicked and still win" with bottom turn.

At that point you need to position yourself so that they cannot contest or seize objectives. Place your troops so that you prevent them from being within 1" and 3" of the obj.

Fragile wrote:
At that point you need to position yourself so that they cannot contest or seize objectives. Place your troops so that you prevent them from being within 1" and 3" of the obj.

Totally agree. With decurion you should have more models left than your opponent, allowing you to easily bully them with your movement phase.

Edit: I'm probably most fond of the decurion for giving access to relentless warriors. Being able to use those ghost arks as assault vehicles whilst still shooting makes warriors pack a fair punch.

I've not been using the Decurion for super large units of Warriors but multiple units of Immortals.

They're so incredibly survivable.

Hollismason, are you walking your Immortals?

 docdoom77 wrote:
I won a tournament game with my Dark Eldar this weekend against a decurion. I'd barely put a dent in the 'Crons and I was at less than half strength with most of my remaining units.

The necrons had 4-5 out of 6 objectives throughout most the game, but on turn 5, I overran several objectives with my many Obsec troops and won the game.

For what that's worth.

It definitely speaks to me that your only real route to success was to go all in on t5 and gamble on the game end roll. That's usually what I do with my BA against higher tier armies that I don't otherwise have a prayer against.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I won a tournament game with my Dark Eldar this weekend against a decurion. I'd barely put a dent in the 'Crons and I was at less than half strength with most of my remaining units.

The necrons had 4-5 out of 6 objectives throughout most the game, but on turn 5, I overran several objectives with my many Obsec troops and won the game.

For what that's worth.

It definitely speaks to me that your only real route to success was to go all in on t5 and gamble on the game end roll. That's usually what I do with my BA against higher tier armies that I don't otherwise have a prayer against.

Well, my DE are mostly a 4th edition army. The only recent additions are a single Venom and a 5 man Scourge unit, so it's far from optimized.... but it's painted, so that's why I took it to the tourney.

Also, it wasn't a gamble. The game ran long and time was about to be called, so I KNEW there wouldn't be more turns. Ironically, I lost my last game of the event because we went to turn 7. I was winning solidly on turn 5 and again on turn 6. Turn 7, I got blasted off my objectives.

 The Shrike wrote:
Hollismason, are you walking your Immortals?

Yep. I had a game where I was like well I want more immortals instead of Nightscythes as my friend didn't have any fliers and I thought it'd be best to have a no flyer game. After that just stopped taking Nightscythes , cause Immortals from the Decurion are insanely survivable.

Hollismason wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
Hollismason, are you walking your Immortals?

Yep. I had a game where I was like well I want more immortals instead of Nightscythes as my friend didn't have any fliers and I thought it'd be best to have a no flyer game. After that just stopped taking Nightscythes , cause Immortals from the Decurion are insanely survivable.

Had a game last week where my opponent had 10 immortals with Szeras, who managed to give the squad T5.

It took most of the game chipping away a few wounds each turn to get rid f it.

I'm still planning on taking a night scythe for my compulsory decurion immortals though. Long ranged objective capping potential, especially with 5 immortals being durable for their points, is useful.
It also helps them get into rapid fire range (does anyone take tesla anymore? Guass really seems the better choice with the tesla nerf and the reclaimation units getting relentless.