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In a universe in which the Horus Heresy never happened (either because Lorgar was aborted or because he never fell to Chaos), Konrad Curze is taken before the Emperor to answer for the brutality of his Legion, the butt-whoopin' he dealt Dorn, and the destruction of Nostramo. Curze, cursed with foresight, stares the Emperor in the face, recounts his vision of dying before the Emperor, the infighting among the Primarchs, and before all watching, tells the tale of the Thunder Warriors, including their destruction. What happens next is left to the imagination of posters, but Curze dies.
His brothers are left with the tale (or what actually happened if they were present) of his death and his visions.
Which Primarch first learns the truth of the Thunder Warriors not as a tale from a psyker but as historical truth? Confronted with that, which remain loyal and which turn traitor? Do the traitors fall to Chaos? Do the loyalists? Do the traitors, in this scenario, defeat the loyalists and the Emperor?
... or do you think all remaining 17 Legions will remain loyal after knowing that the last batch of the Emperor's super-warriors were betrayed and butchered?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 08:24:01
How does Curze know what happened to the Thunder Warriors if his visions are of the future?
Also, we don't actually know what happened to the thunder warriors do we? It's just a theory that the Emperor built in a lifespan to them, and the only instance that they were actually killed by Space Marines was when the War Hounds quelled a rebellion, so those ones were traitors anyway.
I still don't know if the loyalist Primarchs would have listened to Curze over the Emperor...
Also, we don't actually know what happened to the thunder warriors do we? It's just a theory that the Emperor built in a lifespan to them, and the only instance that they were actually killed by Space Marines was when the War Hounds quelled a rebellion, so those ones were traitors anyway.
I still don't know if the loyalist Primarchs would have listened to Curze over the Emperor...
In the Outcast Dead we have a first hand account from the Thunder Warrior, Arik Taranis the Lightning Bearer, and he's well aware of the Emperors design.
I would imagine that the Primarchs would recognise the Thunder Warriors as a means to an end and accept the Emperors excuses.
But the Outcast Dead thing, isn't that just what he thinks? As in, there isn't actually any proof or anything, it's just his assumptions? I haven't actually read it admittedly so I'm not really sure.
And agreed about the Primarchs. Especially as the Space Marines clearly don't have the built in degradation and lifespan of the Thunder Warriors so it's not like they need to worry about it happening to them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 10:07:15
ImAGeek wrote: But the Outcast Dead thing, isn't that just what he thinks? As in, there isn't actually any proof or anything, it's just his assumptions? I haven't actually read it admittedly so I'm not really sure.
It’s what he claims. No evidences of the Emperor killing off the Thunder Warriors were presented in that novel. Babu claims that the Emperor killed them off, but I wouldn’t trust a word he says given his degenerate mental state (the guy is crazy as a loon.)
amanita wrote: So dare I ask what happens if he farts? Could it blow the seals on the lower portion of his armor? Or is a space marine's system immune to such mundane fluctuations of bodily conduct?
Moktor wrote: No one should be complaining about this codex. It gave regular Eldar a much needed buff by allowing us to drop Fire Dragons and D-Scythe Wraithguard wherever we want, without scatter. Without this, I almost lost a game once. It was scary. I almost took to buying fixed dice to ensure it never happened again.
ImAGeek wrote: But the Outcast Dead thing, isn't that just what he thinks? As in, there isn't actually any proof or anything, it's just his assumptions? I haven't actually read it admittedly so I'm not really sure.
It’s what he claims. No evidences of the Emperor killing off the Thunder Warriors were presented in that novel. Babu claims that the Emperor killed them off, but I wouldn’t trust a word he says given his degenerate mental state (the guy is crazy as a loon.)
ImAGeek wrote: But the Outcast Dead thing, isn't that just what he thinks? As in, there isn't actually any proof or anything, it's just his assumptions? I haven't actually read it admittedly so I'm not really sure.
Well, yeah. But his whole schtik is that he wants Gene - seed from the Astartes so he can overcome the flaw he suffers and live. I am not sure if there is anything else anywhere about the Thunder Warriors, other than the piece you mention in Betrayal.
ImAGeek wrote: And agreed about the Primarchs. Especially as the Space Marines clearly don't have the built in degradation and lifespan of the Thunder Warriors so it's not like they need to worry about it happening to them.
Well according to Deliverance Lost and Aurelian there is some means to achieve the same outcome. I'll have a look for the quotes later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 10:46:55
Ok, but what would be the benefit? I don't think showing the Primarchs the fate of the Thunder Warriors would really make that much of a difference. Do we even know if the Emperor did or didn't talk to the Primarchs about them? I guess the Emperor might have divulge some information in regards to them.
Would anyone believe a clearly delusional and disturbed Curze, would anyone care?
ImAGeek wrote: How does Curze know what happened to the Thunder Warriors if his visions are of the future?
Tzeentch intervenes.
What kind of question is that? There exists a multi-dimensional being that exists to empower psykers and manipulate them.
It was a perfectly reasonable question. You should've mentioned that in your first post, all you mentioned were Curzes precognition. You didn't mention Chaos at all, in fact.
And again, why would the tell Curze? No one would follow Curze. The reason the Horus Heresy got any traction was because of how liked and charismatic Horus was.
ImAGeek wrote: How does Curze know what happened to the Thunder Warriors if his visions are of the future?
Tzeentch intervenes.
What kind of question is that? There exists a multi-dimensional being that exists to empower psykers and manipulate them.
It was a perfectly reasonable question. You should've mentioned that in your first post, all you mentioned were Curzes precognition. You didn't mention Chaos at all, in fact.
And again, why would the tell Curze? No one would follow Curze. The reason the Horus Heresy got any traction was because of how liked and charismatic Horus was.
*shrug* Figured that was common sense. The Chaos Gods do that- they're much of what makes 40k40k.
... and of course, no one is following Curze. He's dead.
Some other primarch gets it into his head that yes, they're expendable, and that maybe they also have a time frame of usefulness after which they'll be scrapped. I *did* say that in the initial post.
Some other primarch gets it into his head that yes, they're expendable, and that maybe they also have a time frame of usefulness after which they'll be scrapped. I *did* say that in the initial post.
For some other primarch to get that idea in his head, he'd first have to believe Curze. Curze, who in your scenario, just beat nine colors of gak out of the more-respected Dorn, and was being brough to task for genociding his entire planet without authorization... Yeah, I'm not seeing anybody taking anything he says at face value in that scenario.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Some other primarch gets it into his head that yes, they're expendable, and that maybe they also have a time frame of usefulness after which they'll be scrapped. I *did* say that in the initial post.
For some other primarch to get that idea in his head, he'd first have to believe Curze. Curze, who in your scenario, just beat nine colors of gak out of the more-respected Dorn, and was being brough to task for genociding his entire planet without authorization... Yeah, I'm not seeing anybody taking anything he says at face value in that scenario.
Curze did that in the actual 40k universe, too.
... and you really think that, say, Magnus wouldn't be curious (like he is with sorcery) and do some research?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 20:52:09
I wouldn't really compare Astartes and Thunder Warriors.
Thunder Warriors were never meant to be used beyond Terra, that's why Emperor coded the limited lifespan into their genes. They were just prototypes, or "genetic testbeds". Astartes were the result of this.
Astartes on the other hand, were meant to be more of a "mainstay" fighting body of the Imperium, that's why they don't have that sort of sudden genetic deterioration.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 21:27:09
ImAGeek wrote: [...] especially as the Space Marines clearly don't have the built in degradation and lifespan of the Thunder Warriors so it's not like they need to worry about it happening to them.
Hmm. It might be interesting if the Space Wolves start showing some degradation as well (i.e. the curse of the Wulfen, long fangs, etc). There's also the fact that there are two legions that have the power to verify Curze's story - the Thousand Sons (Magnus and/or lots of psykers) and the Blood Angels (their primarch seems to have visions). Oh, and coincidentally the Blood Angels seem to have been cursed with the degenerative Red Thirst, while the Thousand Sons suffered appalling losses from the Flesh-Change (which could be blamed on a genetic flaw). Perhaps the Emperor didn't want the secret of the Thunder Warriors to get out, perhaps he plans to get rid of the marines once they've taken over the galaxy, perhaps he's responsible for the "genetic defects" in the legions that can find out the truth or are threats. No, but somebody could still plant some seeds of suspicion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/18 23:42:22
ImAGeek wrote: [...] especially as the Space Marines clearly don't have the built in degradation and lifespan of the Thunder Warriors so it's not like they need to worry about it happening to them.
Hmm. It might be interesting if the Space Wolves start showing some degradation as well (i.e. the curse of the Wulfen, long fangs, etc). There's also the fact that there are two legions that have the power to verify Curze's story - the Thousand Sons (Magnus and/or lots of psykers) and the Blood Angels (their primarch seems to have visions). Oh, and coincidentally the Blood Angels seem to have been cursed with the degenerative Red Thirst, while the Thousand Sons suffered appalling losses from the Flesh-Change (which could be blamed on a genetic flaw). Perhaps the Emperor didn't want the secret of the Thunder Warriors to get out, perhaps he plans to get rid of the marines once they've taken over the galaxy, perhaps he's responsible for the "genetic defects" in the legions that can find out the truth or are threats. No, but somebody could still plant some seeds of suspicion.
The Blood Angels tend to be among the longest lived Space Marines rather than consistently dying earlier. They also don't seem to share a predilection for seeing the future. I doubt any real seeds of doubt could be planted. It is stretching too much.
There is no reason that Curze would be trusted over the Emperor. Horus managed to convince the Traitor Primarchs that he would be a better leader for the Imperium than the Emperor. Curze could not doing the same. A Curze Heresy would be result not result in half the Legions turning traitor.
Curze suffers from being so insane he's the only sane guy in the entire universe thanks to his visions. The problem and reason why Curze went traitor was because he knew everything that was going to befall the Imperium decades before the Emperor even showed up on Nostramo.
It would be no different this time. If Curze actually bothered to speak about his visions, everyone would laugh it off and simply view him as a lunatic. Then Curze would die, potentially via assisted suicide again, and all of what he saw would come to pass.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
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Wyzilla wrote: Curze suffers from being so insane he's the only sane guy in the entire universe thanks to his visions. The problem and reason why Curze went traitor was because he knew everything that was going to befall the Imperium decades before the Emperor even showed up on Nostramo.
It would be no different this time. If Curze actually bothered to speak about his visions, everyone would laugh it off and simply view him as a lunatic. Then Curze would die, potentially via assisted suicide again, and all of what he saw would come to pass.
If your dad killed your brother, would you really just laugh it off? Fulgrim, at least, liked him.
I'd ask why you're a hater, but you're a fan of the Ultrasmurfs, so we all know why you gotta hate. If Rowboat Girlyman ain't the center of everything, you gotta hate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/19 03:08:22
I like this. I'll play along. If Curze knew of the thunder warriors and put the idea that each legion was a means to an end and were expandable, I would imagine that some would corrupt and turn traitor.
Legions that would stay loyal:
Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Alpha Legion, Ultramarines, Word Bearers, Iron Hands, Salamanders
All these legions seem to be working towards some ideal and wouldn't be adverse to dying in the process for a dream.
Dorn, Sang, Ferrus, Vulkan, and Robute all believe in the Imperium of man and Alpha and Lorgar seem to be willing to sacrifice for the greater good of humanity.
Some like the Alpha Legion actually did just that (in the HH books they sided with chaos to stop chaos...)
Legions that would turn traitor:
World Eaters, Luna wolves/Son's of Horus, Space Wolves, Night Lords (or what's left), Death Guard, White Scars, Thousand Suns and Iron Warriors, Raven Guard
These legions believe in personal freedoms and pride. I'd imagine that the world eaters and death guard would turn traitor easily enough (even without being provoked). The SoH and Thousand sons are very arrogant and I can see them going rouge as well. Death Guard and Raven Guard hate tyrants and would defect if they ever view the Emperor as that and the Iron Warriors would hate the idea of being "used" as the building blocks of anything. I'd also imagine the Space wolves and White Scars (two legions that value freedom) would have issues with being used as tools to be discarded. The Night Lords, I'd imagine would be pissed that they lost their leader and may sow descent without any aid from any additional rouge elements.
Legions that I have no idea:
Dark Angels, and Emperor's children
These legions I have no idea on. The Lion seems to be pragmatic and calculated. I'm not sure if he would kill his legion for the Imperium or of he would join the defectors. The same can be said about Fulgrim. Fulgrim comes across as prideful and arrogant, and while I'd imagine he would side with the Emperor towards the ideal of a unified humanity, I don't think his ego would permit him being cast aside when that dream is finalized.
That's my 2 cents. As per which would turn to chaos, I'd imagine that any of the rouge elements would join/worship chaos after they witness the imperial truth shatter before them. If that causes more to doubt the Emperor and turn rouge would be also pretty interesting as it would test what they 'know' even further and would give an additional validity to what Curze was talking about.
Nice thought.
Anyone who is married knows that Khorne is really a woman.
- THE HORUS HERESY -
The Primarchs - The Lion
The Lion paused and wiped a fingertip across his brow.
‘Guilliman is a misguided fool at best, and a traitorous dog at worst.’
He took a deep breath.
‘I know that, but I would no sooner bend my knee to him than to Horus. Curze has the truth of it, but I was blinded by my anger. It has fallen to me to be the scale upon which history will be balanced. Every event has its counter, every brother his equal. Curze seeks to sap my morale and the strength of my Legion with unending war. Such shall be the duty of the Dark Angels. Yes, they will be ready for the task. There will be no new Emperor, only a lifetime of war. My brothers will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor. No, not even him. There is only the Emperor, none is worthy of inheriting that mantle. I will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra. That is true. Faced with the prospect of mutual annihilation, my brothers may come to terms. Horus will be forced to acknowledge the Emperor again, and Guilliman and the others will not usurp their true master.’
Again the Lion stopped, with a slight shake of the head.
He turned his gaze to his left, and out of the shadows appeared a diminutive figure. It was no taller than the height of a man’s knee, clad in an ebon robe, tiny and nimble black-gloved hands visible, but the rest of its body and face hidden in shadow. The diminutive creature looked up at the Lion and two coal-like glows briefly lit the inside of its hood.
‘No, it is too important,’ said the primarch.
‘Even if what you say is true, I cannot return to Caliban yet. Come what may, I have to stop Horus and Guilliman.’
The small figure bowed its head, and the Lion did the same, his whisper full of sorrow.
‘Yes, even if it costs me my Legion.’
So Lion was willing to sucrafice his legion for Emperor in actual universe, I don't see why he would not do the same in your fanfic universe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/19 05:38:37
Wyzilla wrote: Curze suffers from being so insane he's the only sane guy in the entire universe thanks to his visions. The problem and reason why Curze went traitor was because he knew everything that was going to befall the Imperium decades before the Emperor even showed up on Nostramo.
It would be no different this time. If Curze actually bothered to speak about his visions, everyone would laugh it off and simply view him as a lunatic. Then Curze would die, potentially via assisted suicide again, and all of what he saw would come to pass.
If your dad killed your brother, would you really just laugh it off? Fulgrim, at least, liked him.
I'd ask why you're a hater, but you're a fan of the Ultrasmurfs, so we all know why you gotta hate. If Rowboat Girlyman ain't the center of everything, you gotta hate.
The loyalists through he was an insane freak. This is less so your Dad randomly killing your brother out of the blue, and instead your dad killing your sociopath nutjob brother who was found crouching over a gutted human corpse with a bloody knife in his hand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/19 05:39:39
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
- THE HORUS HERESY -
The Primarchs - The Lion
The Lion paused and wiped a fingertip across his brow.
‘Guilliman is a misguided fool at best, and a traitorous dog at worst.’
He took a deep breath.
‘I know that, but I would no sooner bend my knee to him than to Horus. Curze has the truth of it, but I was blinded by my anger. It has fallen to me to be the scale upon which history will be balanced. Every event has its counter, every brother his equal. Curze seeks to sap my morale and the strength of my Legion with unending war. Such shall be the duty of the Dark Angels. Yes, they will be ready for the task. There will be no new Emperor, only a lifetime of war. My brothers will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor. No, not even him. There is only the Emperor, none is worthy of inheriting that mantle. I will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra. That is true. Faced with the prospect of mutual annihilation, my brothers may come to terms. Horus will be forced to acknowledge the Emperor again, and Guilliman and the others will not usurp their true master.’
Again the Lion stopped, with a slight shake of the head.
He turned his gaze to his left, and out of the shadows appeared a diminutive figure. It was no taller than the height of a man’s knee, clad in an ebon robe, tiny and nimble black-gloved hands visible, but the rest of its body and face hidden in shadow. The diminutive creature looked up at the Lion and two coal-like glows briefly lit the inside of its hood.
‘No, it is too important,’ said the primarch.
‘Even if what you say is true, I cannot return to Caliban yet. Come what may, I have to stop Horus and Guilliman.’
The small figure bowed its head, and the Lion did the same, his whisper full of sorrow.
‘Yes, even if it costs me my Legion.’
So Lion was willing to sucrafice his legion for Emperor in actual universe, I don't see why he would not do the same in your fanfic universe.
I dunno.
It might be that his ideal of the Emperor was a better man than to create tools and cast them away. It might not make a difference and he'd rather die serving the Emperor regardless of what the Emperor intends for his "sons."
Fulgrim, though, I think is too proud. Fulgrim doesn't see himself or his legion as a means to end and to be culled when done with. He aims for perfection... and being obsolete is about the opposite of perfection. Besides, he's also the one primarch that likes Curze.
That's my 2 cents. As per which would turn to chaos, I'd imagine that any of the rouge elements would join/worship chaos after they witness the imperial truth shatter before them. If that causes more to doubt the Emperor and turn rouge would be also pretty interesting as it would test what they 'know' even further and would give an additional validity to what Curze was talking about.
Here's a thought. If the Heretics outnumber the loyalists and kill the Emperor, could the remaining loyalists fall to Chaos? Might the situation reverse, with the Heretics being uncorrupted ? Obviously, Fulgrim's sword would complicate things- maybe even keep him loyal if the daemon thought its odds were better as a loyalist, corrupting the Imperium from within.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/19 06:09:25
- THE HORUS HERESY -
The Primarchs - The Lion
The Lion paused and wiped a fingertip across his brow.
‘Guilliman is a misguided fool at best, and a traitorous dog at worst.’
He took a deep breath.
‘I know that, but I would no sooner bend my knee to him than to Horus. Curze has the truth of it, but I was blinded by my anger. It has fallen to me to be the scale upon which history will be balanced. Every event has its counter, every brother his equal. Curze seeks to sap my morale and the strength of my Legion with unending war. Such shall be the duty of the Dark Angels. Yes, they will be ready for the task. There will be no new Emperor, only a lifetime of war. My brothers will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor. No, not even him. There is only the Emperor, none is worthy of inheriting that mantle. I will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra. That is true. Faced with the prospect of mutual annihilation, my brothers may come to terms. Horus will be forced to acknowledge the Emperor again, and Guilliman and the others will not usurp their true master.’
Again the Lion stopped, with a slight shake of the head.
He turned his gaze to his left, and out of the shadows appeared a diminutive figure. It was no taller than the height of a man’s knee, clad in an ebon robe, tiny and nimble black-gloved hands visible, but the rest of its body and face hidden in shadow. The diminutive creature looked up at the Lion and two coal-like glows briefly lit the inside of its hood.
‘No, it is too important,’ said the primarch.
‘Even if what you say is true, I cannot return to Caliban yet. Come what may, I have to stop Horus and Guilliman.’
The small figure bowed its head, and the Lion did the same, his whisper full of sorrow.
‘Yes, even if it costs me my Legion.’
So Lion was willing to sucrafice his legion for Emperor in actual universe, I don't see why he would not do the same in your fanfic universe.
Wow, where is that quote from
Anyone who is married knows that Khorne is really a woman.
- THE HORUS HERESY -
The Primarchs - The Lion
The Lion paused and wiped a fingertip across his brow.
‘Guilliman is a misguided fool at best, and a traitorous dog at worst.’
He took a deep breath.
‘I know that, but I would no sooner bend my knee to him than to Horus. Curze has the truth of it, but I was blinded by my anger. It has fallen to me to be the scale upon which history will be balanced. Every event has its counter, every brother his equal. Curze seeks to sap my morale and the strength of my Legion with unending war. Such shall be the duty of the Dark Angels. Yes, they will be ready for the task. There will be no new Emperor, only a lifetime of war. My brothers will bleed each other dry, contesting for eternity until there can be no victor. No, not even him. There is only the Emperor, none is worthy of inheriting that mantle. I will ensure the Legiones Astartes destroy themselves before another matches the power upon Terra. That is true. Faced with the prospect of mutual annihilation, my brothers may come to terms. Horus will be forced to acknowledge the Emperor again, and Guilliman and the others will not usurp their true master.’
Again the Lion stopped, with a slight shake of the head.
He turned his gaze to his left, and out of the shadows appeared a diminutive figure. It was no taller than the height of a man’s knee, clad in an ebon robe, tiny and nimble black-gloved hands visible, but the rest of its body and face hidden in shadow. The diminutive creature looked up at the Lion and two coal-like glows briefly lit the inside of its hood.
‘No, it is too important,’ said the primarch.
‘Even if what you say is true, I cannot return to Caliban yet. Come what may, I have to stop Horus and Guilliman.’
The small figure bowed its head, and the Lion did the same, his whisper full of sorrow.
‘Yes, even if it costs me my Legion.’
So Lion was willing to sucrafice his legion for Emperor in actual universe, I don't see why he would not do the same in your fanfic universe.
Wow, where is that quote from
From The Lion by Gav Thorpe, from The Primarchs anthology
Btw, is this the story with the head smacking? I think it is... Very interesting quote above though.
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Wyzilla wrote: Curze suffers from being so insane he's the only sane guy in the entire universe thanks to his visions. The problem and reason why Curze went traitor was because he knew everything that was going to befall the Imperium decades before the Emperor even showed up on Nostramo.
It would be no different this time. If Curze actually bothered to speak about his visions, everyone would laugh it off and simply view him as a lunatic. Then Curze would die, potentially via assisted suicide again, and all of what he saw would come to pass.
This is what I don't get on the whole Curze thing. He was, for want of a better word, afraid of what would happen. But he never seemed to do anything to prevent the outcome, he just went along with the visions he had and accepted his fate. Perhaps if he had used the visions as a warning, he might not have come up such a cropper. It's his whole inability to do anything different and his own deeds that led to his demise. He didn't have to be the CRAZZEEE one. He might have thought, hmm, so the Emperor is going to kill me, perhaps I should be a super smashing nice Primarch, stop skinning populations and he maybe won't smite me.
If your dad killed your brother, would you really just laugh it off? Fulgrim, at least, liked him.
I don't think Fulgrim actually liked Curze, he was his mentor for awhile. Fulgrim likely entertained the sense of comradery but I imagine it would be the same sort of relationship that Fulgrim had with the likes of Lorgar.
Now if the Primarchs had any reason to suspect that the Emperor could do the same to them, then there might be a cause for them to side with Curze. Let me find the quotes I have about the Astartes kill switch and post i'll post them later.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
~ 7350pts (about 5800 painted);
~ 4700pts (about 2700 painted);
~ 1300pts (about 800 painted);
~ 2000pts (about 1800 painted);
~ 850pts;
~ 2000pts 
