Tunis Attack 17 foreigners and 2 Tunisians killed

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**Frazzled**

So what exactly was the point?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/18/393786290/gunmen-storm-tunisian-museum-in-deadly-attack

Updated at 11:30 a.m. ET.

Tunisia's prime minister says at least 21 people were killed Wednesday after gunmen stormed the National Bardo Museum in the capital city, Tunis. Seventeen foreign tourists from Italy, Germany, Poland and Spain were among the dead, according to Prime Minister Habib Essid.

Two gunmen also were also killed, Essid said, along with a Tunisian citizen and a police officer. Initial reports had put the death toll at eight.

At least 22 foreigners and 2 Tunisians were injured in the most serious attack in Tunisia in years.
The family of a policeman killed during Wednesday's attack grieves outside the morgue in Tunis, Tunisia. i

The family of a policeman killed during Wednesday's attack grieves outside the morgue in Tunis, Tunisia.
Leila Fadel/NPR

Essid says the two gunmen may have had help from at least two other people who may still be at large. He said many weapons depots had been discovered, but gave no further details.

The prime minister called it a cowardly attack that would hurt Tunisia's economy and tourism industry.

NPR's Leila Fadel, who is in Tunisia, reported that the gunmen were wearing military uniforms and carrying assault rifles when they opened fire at the museum. The museum is adjacent to the country's parliament building, and the BBC says members of parliament were discussing anti-terrorism legislation at the time of the attack.

Gunmen reportedly took a number of tourists hostage. They were held for several hours before being released.

Al-Jazeera English TV showed video of security forces training their weapons on the museum and the parliament building as people fled the area.
A view of the interior of the National Bardo Museum in Tunis prior to Wednesday's attack. i

A view of the interior of the National Bardo Museum in Tunis prior to Wednesday's attack.
Bethune Carmichael/Lonely Planet Images/Getty Images

Leila said the small North African nation of Tunisia was where the so-called Arab Spring began in 2011. She says the country has been spared much of the violence seen in other countries in the region, but has struggled with a growing number of Tunisians joining the self-proclaimed Islamic State.

She said the country is considered one of the biggest exporters of militants — anywhere from one to 3,000 young men have gone to fight with the self-proclaimed Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, and there are concerns about their plans when they return home to Tunisia.

Tunisia's prime minister said the country is under threat and made an impassioned plea for Tunisia to stand united against terrorism. He added that the security forces would be relentless and without mercy against those who try to undermine the country.

**NuggzTheNinja**

The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

**Xenomancers**

Let me guess...these weren't Islamic's?

**squidhills**

Frazzled wrote:
So what exactly was the point?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/18/393786290/gunmen-storm-tunisian-museum-in-deadly-attack

NPR's Leila Fadel, who is in Tunisia, reported that the gunmen were wearing military uniforms and carrying assault rifles when they opened fire at the museum. The museum is adjacent to the country's parliament building, and the BBC says members of parliament were discussing anti-terrorism legislation at the time of the attack.
Gunmen reportedly took a number of tourists hostage. They were held for several hours before being released.

Maybe the point was to show their government that they could strike so close to the seat of government with impunity. Or maybe they got the wrong address and were supposed to be next door...

**djones520**

This is an odd case... my thoughts go out to the families of the victims.

I'll be interested to hear more about the motives, and the like.

**Matthew**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responsible...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

**djones520**

Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

**Matthew**

djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

**PhantomViper**

Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

Can you quote where anyone has said that all Muslims are responsible for anything?

Or are you one of those guys that don't know the difference between Muslims and Islam?

**NuggzTheNinja**

Matthew wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

I'm merely pointing out the irony of calling Islam a "religion of peace" when it has nearly cornered the world market on mass casualty terrorism.

**Matthew**

PhantomViper wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

Can you quote where anyone has said that all Muslims are responsible for anything?

Or are you one of those guys that don't know the difference between Muslims and Islam?

He said

The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

, and: A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem,[1] relates to a person who follows the religion of Islam

**PhantomViper**

Matthew wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

Islam =\= All Muslims

All Muslims were definitely not responsible for this attack, the particular Muslims that planned it and carried it out were responsible.

At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

**Matthew**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Matthew wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

I'm merely pointing out the irony of calling Islam a "religion of peace" when it has nearly cornered the world market on mass casualty terrorism.

But saying that Islam is responsible for this is stupid. It's like saying "Oh that one guy in that one school got an F in maths class, let's give the entire school an F"

**NuggzTheNinja**

Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Matthew wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

I'm merely pointing out the irony of calling Islam a "religion of peace" when it has nearly cornered the world market on mass casualty terrorism.

But saying that Islam is responsible for this is stupid. It's like saying "Oh that one guy in that one school got an F in maths class, let's give the entire school an F"

Actually, it's absolutely nothing like your analogy, but thanks for your input.

**PhantomViper**

Matthew wrote:

But saying that Islam is responsible for this is stupid. It's like saying "Oh that one guy in that one school got an F in maths class, let's give the entire school an F"

No, its not.

You do understand that a religion is different from a person, right?

You really should stop, you're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

**Stonebeard**

Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Matthew wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responisble...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

He did not say that at all. But don't let that get in the way of getting on your soap box as well.

But he did say "the religion of peace", a term often used when critisizing Islam.

I'm merely pointing out the irony of calling Islam a "religion of peace" when it has nearly cornered the world market on mass casualty terrorism.

But saying that Islam is responsible for this is stupid. It's like saying "Oh that one guy in that one school got an F in maths class, let's give the entire school an F"

No, it's more like pointing out that it might not be accurate the refer to a particular school an institution of academic excellence when 10% of the school is flunking out and a large number of the remainder are just barely passing core classes.

**Matthew**

Alright, I back out. All I'm saying is that it's stupid to say that it's every other muslims fault (that some people do) if one or two kill people.

**PhantomViper**

Matthew wrote:
Alright, I back out. All I'm saying is that it's stupid to say that it's every other muslims fault (that some people do) if one or two kill people.

No one actually said that, but if anyone had said it, then yes, that would be a pretty stupid thing to say.

**NuggzTheNinja**

Stonebeard wrote:

No, it's more like pointing out that it might not be accurate the refer to a particular school an institution of academic excellence when 10% of the school is flunking out and a large number of the remainder are just barely passing core classes.

Very well put.

**Frazzled**

Matthew wrote:
NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

Oh yay, here comes TFG who after every terrorist attack claims that all muslims are responsible...
Why don't we go ahead and blame Columbine on all caucasians while we're at it?

Columbine was clearly the fault of the Colombians.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

squidhills wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
So what exactly was the point?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/18/393786290/gunmen-storm-tunisian-museum-in-deadly-attack

NPR's Leila Fadel, who is in Tunisia, reported that the gunmen were wearing military uniforms and carrying assault rifles when they opened fire at the museum. The museum is adjacent to the country's parliament building, and the BBC says members of parliament were discussing anti-terrorism legislation at the time of the attack.
Gunmen reportedly took a number of tourists hostage. They were held for several hours before being released.

Maybe the point was to show their government that they could strike so close to the seat of government with impunity. Or maybe they got the wrong address and were supposed to be next door...

Why wouldn't they go after the Parliament if thats the target? Saying look I can shoot grandmothers with my machine gun doesn't do it for me.

**Dreadclaw69**

To get us back on track; my condolences to the families of the victims, and police who lost their lives.

Given the relative lack of air time Tunisia has received after the Arab Spring ended I hope this is not the start of a worrying trend.

**Cheesecat**

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The "Religion of Peace" strikes again.

I think the only religion that is truly a "religion of peace" is Buddhism, pretty much every other one has some element of violence to it which is why I find it odd when Christians and Jews are being smug with the "Islam is a religion of peace" comment, considering some of the horrible things

that some of those religions have done to people in past and present.

**AlmightyWalrus**

PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Where does the article say this? It briefly mentions the fact that Tunisia is worried about the impact of ISIS, it doesn't actually say anything about who was responsible for the attack.

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Where does the article say this? It briefly mentions the fact that Tunisia is worried about the impact of ISIS, it doesn't actually say anything about who was responsible for the attack.

Agreed, hence my question. Why?

**PhantomViper**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Where does the article say this? It briefly mentions the fact that Tunisia is worried about the impact of ISIS, it doesn't actually say anything about who was responsible for the attack.

Right, "implied" might have been a better choice of words on my part.

**Computron**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Where does the article say this? It briefly mentions the fact that Tunisia is worried about the impact of ISIS, it doesn't actually say anything about who was responsible for the attack.

It's speculation. ISIS is nearby and spreading in that general direction. It also fits in with what ISIS has done recently in terms of destroying ancient art though I don't think any art was destroyed here but it was a museum.
This actually to me seems more like the attack on tourists in Egypt several years ago. Gunmen massacred a busload of mostly western tourists as part of a rise in fundamental islam. I think they were related to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Some of them have this idea that any history before Muhammed is irrelevant. They also see ancient statues as a form of idolatry- heck some idiot in one of those groups made some comment about destroying the Pyramids.

**sebster**

PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Nope. That's like claiming that when a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, then Christianity is responsible for it. fething how? How is that crazy abortion bomber the responsibility of a little old lady who attends a small church in an outer suburb of Dallas?

And as such, how was this atrocity the responsibility of Islam and it's one billion followers?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stonebeard wrote:
No, it's more like pointing out that it might not be accurate the refer to a particular school an institution of academic excellence when 10% of the school is flunking out and a large number of the remainder are just barely passing core classes.

And your analogy only works if 10% of Muslims were terrorists, and a large number of the remainder supported terrorism and other religious violence. As that's miles from being true, your analogy sucks.

**Stonebeard**

Stonebeard wrote:
No, it's more like pointing out that it might not be accurate the refer to a particular school an institution of academic excellence when 10% of the school is flunking out and a large number of the remainder are just barely passing core classes.

And your analogy only works if 10% of Muslims were terrorists, and a large number of the remainder supported terrorism and other religious violence. As that's miles from being true, your analogy sucks.

Of course it sucks, it's comparing academic institution to religions, grades to mass murder, and 10% of the Muslim population would be well north 100 million people. You expected me to research the hard numbers and throw those into something like that? Hell no, I expect you people to have enough brains to figure out what is and isn't hyperbole, and then go form there. Just so we're clear, and no one is confused (don't know why you would), the school thing was clearly an example of hyperbole.

The point is that violence seems to be an issue within Islam, particularly in certain sections of the world, and, perhaps, the faith could use some large-scale reforms. Is that feasible? Don't know, but it would be nice.

**sebster**

Stonebeard wrote:
Of course it sucks, it's comparing academic institution to religions, grades to mass murder, and 10% of the Muslim population would be well north 100 million people. You expected me to research the hard numbers and throw those into something like that? Hell no, I expect you people to have enough brains to figure out what is and isn't hyperbole, and then go form there. Just so we're clear, and no one is confused (don't know why you would), the school thing was clearly an example of hyperbole.

The point is that if you take out the hyperbole the argument falls apart.

To run through some rough numbers, if you add up the membership roles of all the Islamic terror groups in the world, there's about 180,000 of them (and even that number is really generous, it basically includes anyone even vaguely related to a network). And then if we look at how many muslims support some kind of terror, then we look at polling, in which results vary greatly, but typically fall between 1% and 10% saying terrorism can be justified often.

At which point we can adjust your statement to read "...it's more like pointing out that it might not be accurate the refer to a particular school an institution of academic excellence when 0.015% of the school is flunking out and between 1% and 10% of the remainder are just barely passing core classes."

Those would actually be excellent academic results, and so the analogy doesn't work.

The point is that violence seems to be an issue within Islam, particularly in certain sections of the world, and, perhaps, the faith could use some large-scale reforms. Is that feasible? Don't know, but it would be nice.

I agree there is an issue within Islam, that will take a lot of reform and analysis to resolve.

The point though, is that a similar issue existed within the Catholic church with paedophilia, not only with the number of such priests, but the cover-ups. That continued for multiple generations, and if at any point you were to walk up to my wife or her family and mockingly call her religion "the religion of compassion" or something similar, you'd be a complete donkey-cave.

And you'd not only be an donkey-cave, but you're also likely to make that necessary process of reform that little bit harder.

**PhantomViper**

sebster wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
At the same time, if the article is correct and this was a religiously motivated attack, then Islam was definitely responsible for it.

Nope. That's like claiming that when a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, then Christianity is responsible for it. fething how? How is that crazy abortion bomber the responsibility of a little old lady who attends a small church in an outer suburb of Dallas?

And as such, how was this atrocity the responsibility of Islam and it's one billion followers?

Et tu sebster?

To take up your analogy (and you guys really should stop with the crappy analogies), if the Bible said that abortion was a sin and that all abortionists should be killed, then yes Christianity would be responsible for people blowing up abortion clinics because their holy book tells them so, but no that little old lady who attends a small church in an outer suburb of Dallas would have no responsibility in it because she wouldn't be obeying that particular tenet of her faith.

NO ONE SAID THAT THIS ATROCITY WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANY FOLLOWERS OF ISLAM, OTHER THAN THOSE THAT ACTUALLY PERPETRATED IT!

However, since the Koran and its Hadiths explicitly state that Islam should be spread by the sword and that those that don't follow it should be murdered and then people go out and do exactly those things in the name of Islam, then yes, Islam is directly responsible for this atrocity.