Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Imperium believes that the Emperor is their one true god and saviour.

This was not always the case. The idea came from Lorgar's Lectitio Divinatus.


However, at the end of the Battle of Terra the Emperor had been crippled by Horus. He had to be placed upon the Golden Throne.


Many would say that this proves that the Emperor is mortal like the rest. However, the Imperial Cult says that this led to his ascension.


Where did that idea come from and how did they convince others of it?

Well the Emperor is an imposing figure. In the Lecitito Divinatus, the Emperor is described as a god walking among men. The longevity of the Emperor's existence, feat of unifying terra and then mars, psychic power, vision, and fortitude all give credibility to the divine. When the Emperor was placed on the Golden throne, I'd imagine that people needed to believe that he was still with them and continued to believe that he was so powerful that he didn't die but transcended to watch over them.
At the end of the whole HH, I'd imagine that anything even questioning anything about the Emperor would be considered extreme heresy and would be tantamount to being a traitor. Also through the devastation, I'd also imagine that there would be a lot of religious fervor. So basically, you have a god-like being that is still around (astronomican), anti traitor propaganda and a religious sect that is growing and creating legends and fables around the different events that are obscuring in time. Over time, I'd imagine that this is what led to where we are right now.

Yup, and if any loyalist primarch came back they'd most likely facedesk and go something like this :
"Oh gak... Lorgar did it again...."

I like the way Lorgar puts it actually, he's 'a god in all but name'. He has pretty much godlike power, so you can see why people would think of him as such. And after he defeated Horus, even though he was pretty much killed, he still defeated Horus. I imagine that helped his image.

I love the irony that Lorgar, the first traitor, wrote the 'holy book' that they follow in 40k.

Indeed, but the only problem is that the whole "cause" of the emperor right up until his interment within the Golden Throne was Enlightenment[b], he always opposed being seen or talked to as a god, so pretty much all the high lords of terra, the eclesiarchy & co. are all "heretics" to the original imperial vision, I can't imagine a primarch really being okay with things so twisted upside down.

Myliel wrote:
Indeed, but the only problem is that the whole "cause" of the emperor right up until his interment within the Golden Throne was Enlightenment[b], he always opposed being seen or talked to as a god, so pretty much all the high lords of terra, the eclesiarchy & co. are all "heretics" to the original imperial vision, I can't imagine a primarch really being okay with things so twisted upside down.

Well what the Chaos Gods showed Horus was that the Emperor did that to eliminate religion, so that when he finally proclaimed his own divinity there would no longer be any other faith to oppose that claim. Whether or not you believe that is up to you.

 Orblivion wrote:

Myliel wrote:
Indeed, but the only problem is that the whole "cause" of the emperor right up until his interment within the Golden Throne was Enlightenment[b], he always opposed being seen or talked to as a god, so pretty much all the high lords of terra, the eclesiarchy & co. are all "heretics" to the original imperial vision, I can't imagine a primarch really being okay with things so twisted upside down.

Well what the Chaos Gods showed Horus was that the Emperor did that to eliminate religion, so that when he finally proclaimed his own divinity there would no longer be any other faith to oppose that claim. Whether or not you believe that is up to you.

but if he taught people to think like skeptics and atheists then it would be hard for him to make an about turn


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inkubas wrote:
Well the Emperor is an imposing figure. In the Lecitito Divinatus, the Emperor is described as a god walking among men. The longevity of the Emperor's existence, feat of unifying terra and then mars, psychic power, vision, and fortitude all give credibility to the divine. When the Emperor was placed on the Golden throne, I'd imagine that people needed to believe that he was still with them and continued to believe that he was so powerful that he didn't die but transcended to watch over them.
At the end of the whole HH, I'd imagine that anything even questioning anything about the Emperor would be considered extreme heresy and would be tantamount to being a traitor. Also through the devastation, I'd also imagine that there would be a lot of religious fervor. So basically, you have a god-like being that is still around (astronomican), anti traitor propaganda and a religious sect that is growing and creating legends and fables around the different events that are obscuring in time. Over time, I'd imagine that this is what led to where we are right now.

It is true that people want to feel protected by some higher power during times of crisis.

However, where do you think the idea that he ascended came from? It is a hopeful concept but one that doesn't make much sense.

In addition, there had to be some miraculous events to convince skeptics.

However, where do you think the idea that he ascended came from?

1. Lectitio Divinitatus as previously stated.

2. The very fact that although broken and almost dead by all intents and purposes, His light (the Astronomican) still guides humanity through the grimdark universe and the warp.

3. The history of 40k is riddled with various saints, some arguably servants of chaos (knowingly or not), but actual ones as well who performed actual miracles, starting off during the HH itself with Euphrati Keeler.

Let's remember though that it didn't happen in one day, it obviously took quite some time for the ideas in the Lectitio Divinitatus to spread, but the common people needed something to believe in after the turmoil and sheer horror of the HH, so eventually spread it did. Now whether the High Lords of Terra at the time did believe in it or not, they had to see it as a huge opportunity to control the masses and keep the cogs turning, so to speak, so it was to their advantage to use it.

The Emperor «cult» only gain a real foothold in the Imperium after he killed Horus. He was acclaimed has a living for saving humanity from daemons and destruction and made the ultimate sacrifice to do so. This is basically a retake of many other religious story, most famous of them all that of Jesus Christ who only was considered as God after is death. The only difference being that the Emperor is an actual figure (in the 40K univers) while Jesus is a mythical construction based on several different preachers and faith healers of the time.

Before the Ecclesiarchy rise to power, there were dozens of cults with different interpretation of the Emperor divinity. It took a few for it to impose, absorb or destroy all those who opposed it.

Myliel wrote:
Indeed, but the only problem is that the whole "cause" of the emperor right up until his interment within the Golden Throne was Enlightenment[b], he always opposed being seen or talked to as a god, so pretty much all the high lords of terra, the eclesiarchy & co. are all "heretics" to the original imperial vision, I can't imagine a primarch really being okay with things so twisted upside down.

Or, rather, that's what the Emperor wanted you to think his cause was, despite the fact that there were billions of people on Terra venerating him as a god in his lifetime that he did absolutely nothing about. The "Imperial Truth" has so many holes in it that it seems that becoming the sole, central figure of human veneration was the purpose all along. Perhaps not in exactly the manner in which it came about, given the injuries sustained while fighting Horus, but the end results are pretty much the same.

 Psienesis wrote:

Myliel wrote:
Indeed, but the only problem is that the whole "cause" of the emperor right up until his interment within the Golden Throne was Enlightenment[b], he always opposed being seen or talked to as a god, so pretty much all the high lords of terra, the eclesiarchy & co. are all "heretics" to the original imperial vision, I can't imagine a primarch really being okay with things so twisted upside down.

Or, rather, that's what the Emperor wanted you to think his cause was, despite the fact that there were billions of people on Terra venerating him as a god in his lifetime that he did absolutely nothing about. The "Imperial Truth" has so many holes in it that it seems that becoming the sole, central figure of human veneration was the purpose all along. Perhaps not in exactly the manner in which it came about, given the injuries sustained while fighting Horus, but the end results are pretty much the same.

Oh yeah we are in agreement on that, I was just explaining to the OP how the imperial cult came to so readily gain a foothold in post-heresy imperium.

Weeell Lorgar messed up didn't he. he wrote a really good book, and spread it really hard, but forgot to do a product recall when he changed his mind.

Humanity did the rest, and the all round madness and destruction of the HH forced even civilised worlds down the crazy route.

There is an added bonus tho, daemons are massively superstitious and completely allergic to the emperor, so the fact that faith in him actually works when fighting the most horrific of humanitys enemies is the kind of real miracle that could bring even the hardest sceptic around.

The Black Templars probably helped spread the word during the scouring... And somehow the council of Terra got on board and made worshipping the emperor the state religion (Malcador wouldn't have stood for it.. shame he died)

I imagine the Primarchs Hated the idea, but even they couldn't argue with the mass of humanity, and they were busy hunting down traitors.

Myliel wrote:

However, where do you think the idea that he ascended came from?

1. Lectitio Divinitatus as previously stated.

2. The very fact that although broken and almost dead by all intents and purposes, His light (the Astronomican) still guides humanity through the grimdark universe and the warp.

3. The history of 40k is riddled with various saints, some arguably servants of chaos (knowingly or not), but actual ones as well who performed actual miracles, starting off during the HH itself with Euphrati Keeler.

Let's remember though that it didn't happen in one day, it obviously took quite some time for the ideas in the Lectitio Divinitatus to spread, but the common people needed something to believe in after the turmoil and sheer horror of the HH, so eventually spread it did. Now whether the High Lords of Terra at the time did believe in it or not, they had to see it as a huge opportunity to control the masses and keep the cogs turning, so to speak, so it was to their advantage to use it.

I don't think the divinatus said that he would ascend after near death. Also, why would the Emperor ascend if he's not truly dead and still partially alive?

I guess we'll have to wait for future HH books to sort this out.

I don't think the divinatus said that he would ascend after near death. Also, why would the Emperor ascend if he's not truly dead and still partially alive?

Think of the Golden Throne as a "tether" keeping the Emperor anchored to Terra (that and the 1000 souls sacrificed to him on a daily basis), other than that He is for all intends and purposes a warp entity, one that is vastly worshipped at that, and we all know that in the 40k grimdark universe more worshippers = more power in the warp, that's the way faith works in that universe.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I like the way Lorgar puts it actually, he's 'a god in all but name'. He has pretty much godlike power, so you can see why people would think of him as such. And after he defeated Horus, even though he was pretty much killed, he still defeated Horus. I imagine that helped his image.

I love the irony that Lorgar, the first traitor, wrote the 'holy book' that they follow in 40k.

Remember that its an irony only we get to see. As far as everyone in the 40k universe is concerned it was Horus the first traitor.

Myliel wrote:

I don't think the divinatus said that he would ascend after near death. Also, why would the Emperor ascend if he's not truly dead and still partially alive?

Think of the Golden Throne as a "tether" keeping the Emperor anchored to Terra (that and the 1000 souls sacrificed to him on a daily basis), other than that He is for all intends and purposes a warp entity

that is a pretty good idea.

my only concern is, why would can't a god power the Astronomicon on his own?