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Alright so I am going to possibly take part in my second tournament with my guard.

4 rounds will be played and 3 of the 4 will be objective holding various points and another round will be kill points

I typically dont always build tournament lists as I usually play for fun. But with the tournament in about a month I want to give myself time to work with the army and test it out.

From what im aware some forge world stuff is allowed, super heavies are allowed, and formations are allowed as well.

Any other questions about the tourney you have I will try to answer.

So here's the list: 1745

HQ:

CCS
x4 plasma guns
chimera

Tank commander squadron
Vanquisher TC-LC/ MM sponsons
executioner partner- plasma sponsons

Elites:
Scion squad x2 melta
scion squad x2 melta

Troops:
x2 vet squads with x3 plasma/grenadiers/chimera
x2 vet squads with x3 melta/ chimera

Heavy:
Hydra
Hydra
Wyvern, wyvern (squadron)

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line

I went with the mech route over blob as mobility is key in these objective based games. I am trying to stick with models I have as since there is only a month until the tourney and I work a lot and go to college full time I dont have the extra time to build up and paint extra models as well as Im short on cash. I do not own forge world so any recommendations for those can be left alone.

So Im looking at making this list as best as I can get it for 1750. Also what are some of the common lists I will run into in a tournament meta. What strategies should I use to face some of the top armies to possibly have a chance in beating them. What strategies should I use to make my army better.

Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated!!!

Any comments?

I might add a medic to the CCS to help with overheat issues.

If you have a suitable model you might also add a psyker to help mitigate or add to invisibility shenanigans.

What is your plan for the AGL?

I have had a lot of success with mixed lists. Meaning mix of foot infantry and tanks for support. The all tanks is nice until they have thunderwolves and reach you turn two and clean up your back field. You don't have enough weight of fire to kill this. Mobility is difficult for AM this is true. I have found that my foundation unit is a 40 man blob with lascannons, a priest, primaris, and sometimes inquisitor. It's hard to remove that many guard unless you dedicate a lot of fire into it, and they can usually beat most units in combat. The inquisitor can add a lot. With a psyocculum you have 40 bs 10 guard shooting at a pysker or his unit. You got first turn playing nids. Just order ignores cover and enjoy your first blood as it's practically impossible to miss that hive tyrant hugging his malanthrope. This unit can camp back field objectives and cover more than one in case of maelstrom. Just choose which objective they are holding at the end of the turn based on the cards you draw.

No need for a defense line. I think it's a trap. You want to use it, which keeps you back in your deployment zone. Which gets you cornered by assault armies, which gives up board position.

The wyverns are solid. I like two in a unit. Splitting lets them shoot different targets, but two makes things die.

Also not a fan of the vanquisher as a tank commander. The one shot is a problem, especially with jink and imperial knight saves. The plasma tank really needs preferred enemy or he may die to himself. But he does damage.

I would also drop the hydras for a vendetta. This can give your ccs mobility to get deep into the enemy deployment. Or a PCS with flamers if you go that route. Chimeras help, but they only really get halfway across the board before dying (if that).

Not sure what models you have available. But I think with this army right now, one unit of wraiths could wipe you out. And they are pretty popular.

Thanks for the reply, I have plenty of models to choose from. So I do have a vendetta and was considering using that over the hydras but wasn't sure if it would be well with 2 scion units deepstriking.

With the tank commander and a combined arms detachment I was really hoping I would roll for old grudges. The vanquisher is to just give me some long range anti tank. Which in question seems to be what I'm lacking most of.

I do have the models for the blob so I could go that route.

Alright so I should get rid of the defense line? I feel it really helps guard armies survive some first turn shooting. And what vets should I drop to achieve the blob build in the back field?

How should I go with my tank commander? I have 2 vanquishers, multiple LRBT's, 2 eradicators, 2 executioners.

I am not familiar with wraiths as I don't believe I have played against one before, what codex is it from?
Thanks again for the reply!!!

Necron wraiths. They are t5 with 2 wounds and move really fast and can mess up units and vehicles alike. They take serious weight of fire to get rid of.

As a guard player I can give you advice on how I would approach it. But there are many different ways to play, and I don't want to make a copy of my list if it takes you in a totally different direction.

That said. If you are going to use a blob, they need senior officer orders to ignore cover and bring it down.The blob does not move fast, so neither does the ccs. I like it nice and cheap. The officer and a mortar, and master of ordnance on foot. Maybe a vox, maybe a banner. Their sole purpose is to buff the blob, and can order ignores cover on the MoO in hopes of getting lucky (Mine took out the last hullpoint of a Knight once). The beauty is they are small, can hide out of line of sight and still do what they need to do and fire away. I find the chimera can be a boon if there are lots of ordered units, for the extra range. But it becomes a pretty big target. An astropath is a good option as well if there are points to spare. Shrouding and invis are nice. And a psychic shriek at the right time can be clutch.

Also with the blob comes the PCS. 4 flamers in your vendetta every time. They can hop out the back as it flies around, or you can hover for them to get out normally. A pretty straightforward unit.

The aegis defense line seems nice. The cover may help in certain instances. But it is really easy to get cover saves if you try. I have never really missed it. Too many times my tanks rolled a one driving over the stupid wall anyways.

Wyverns are in. Here is where I would consider a vet squad in a chimera. They are a mid field objective grabber. Another option to consider is a squad of conscripts for mid field objectives. With a commissar they ain't going anywhere. And they serve another purpose of screening against fast assault units. Cheap and expendable. Take the hit from the fast assault unit coming in, giving you another round of fire. Scions deep striking and the pcs and vendetta can be the deep objective grabbers. Sadly guard are slow and options are limited for getting to objectives.

Finally we come to supporting fire. This is where the tank commander would fall in I feel. The question is. Do we need a tank commander? If you are not rocking pask in a punisher, could we not just split up the tank commander into normal tanks? A standard LRBT can be a nice blast going down field keeping all MEQ cautious and doing consistent damage to vehicles. Demolisher and Manticore are there to keep the T5 dudes honest. This I think is up to personal taste and previous experience/success. You do have wyverns which blow apart infantry, so they kind of do the same them as eradicators. So unless you want redundancy, try other options.

Lets see what you come up with and work on that.

That is extremely sound advice there Bonachinonin.

As you say the MoO is beastmode. He regularly wrecks face for me. If your feeling cheeky, put him in line of sight but in decent cover, then you can subract his BS4 from his blast.

Yes grabbing objectives can be an issue. One option I have done is simply flooding the table with sloggers, the issue is this slows the game down too much at this point level and is a headache to manage so many models.

How about rough riders? I dont have any models so have never used them, but if hidden and used at the right time they could work out for objective grabbing or counter charging?

Rough riders are surprisingly... surprising! I consider them frequently, but cut them every time in a tourney list. They are a high potential unit, but they can get taken out by something as lame as a drop pod with a missile launcher on it. Though they did kill an entire command squad for marines along with the hq in a single charge.

I've noticed that it's usually the foot troops that do all the work. The platoon and vets. The tanks draw a lot of attention and eat their weight in fire, but the stuff actually killing people is the guardsmen. Just work on controlling the flow of the game. Reduce the amount of units the opponent has to play with. Make them make difficult decisions. Use a unit aggressively, or use the unit to hold an objective. Sometimes shooting the deathstar isn't necessary. Just kill the couple scout squads on the objectives and suddenly its you not him getting points. Don't necessarily have to get to every objective all the time. Work within your limits so to speak.

I can work on getting a lascannon blob in the list and a vendetta instead of the hudras.

Now I probably won't add conscripts unless points allow because games are only 2 and a half hours so I don't want to take to long moving a ton of bodies.

Now in regards to the tank commander he is really my only long range anti tank right now. And I do hope with the reroll for warlord trait I get old grudges so the executioner can murder stuff. i do see your point about the standard russes but would maybe eradicators with hull lascannon and sponsons MM's be better?

i unfortunetly don't have rough riders to try

But back with the wyverns, I have 2 of them so would it be better to keep them separate or squad them up?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I will fix the list up later when I get out of work to start some of the changes including the vendetta and the blob.

I usually play horde orks, 160 models plus at tournies, no one plans for them because people dont expect it. However, moving those models, espec only 40 conscripts would be easy enough in 2 half hours.

In terms of a cheep build for RRiders, try using the Outrider cav from Empire range, 5 for $25 (i think) you can convert them easy enough and their plumage and decor work well for Imp Guard.

In Regards to the Wyverns keep them as a single unit, harder to give up first blood

On a side note could you check out my Necrons list and give two cents, been ages since I played on a competitive scene and advice would be good

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641506.page

If you are going to use executioners, either get pask for PE or a company command with the Aquila relic.

1-2 vendettas for AA, get rid of hydras and defense line

Alright so I worked on the list a little more and feel I have worked it a little more towards everyone's suggestions.


So I have:

CCS
x4 plasma
Chimera

Priest

Primaris psyker

scions
x2melta

scions
x2melta

PCS
x3 flamers
x4 PIS each with a LC(blob with priest and Psyker)

Vets
x3 melta
Chimera

Vets
x3 plasma
Chimera

Vendetta

Eradicator-LC/MM's

Eradicator-LC/MM's

Wyvern, wyvern

Alright so lost the TC squadron for the eradicators and scions were added. Now I have 60points left?

Thanks for the replies!!! The help is greatly appreciated. I will end up play testing the list sometime tomorrow with whatever we come up with by then. I will also have to submit the list for review by the end of the week.

Not bad. Just a few things I want to point out. The blob will need orders. Your ccs is setup to roll up the table. You will need to keep them in range. You could cut some points on the ccs and give the squad a lascannon and keep them in the chimera and just chill in the back with the blob. Also might want to mention meltabombs on the sergeants of the blob. Deepstriking dreads or wraithknights assaulting into you. Teach them their mistake! Wraithknight kills 4 on the charge, hit him back with 4 rerolling to hit and wound melta bombs. He's not winning that race. People advocate melee weapons on the sergeants too, but I've found anything str 3 can hurt, you can kill just by punching it over and over. I suppose it couldn't hurt. But they die fast, no need to overload them with points if they don't need it.

You mentioned not having long ranged anti tank. We did just add 7 twin linked (with prescience) lascannons that can ignore cover or reroll armor pen. More than long ranged power, you need power for when people get up in your grill. The executioner is great for that. Another option is pask in a punisher for tank commander. He kills everything. Together they are 455 points (w/ camo netting) of stay out of my range or die.

At this point it's nitpicking. I don't like the tank commander unless it's pask or a steel host formation. I'd rather just bring leman russes then fork out the points for tank commanders. I also don't like expensive squadrons. Something about wounds carrying over into the other tanks.

Ideally you want to be able to kill two wave serpents a turn, or kill one and force two to jink. At 1750 you can see 4-5 wave serpents I would say. The lascannon blob kills a wave serpent easy. The vendetta makes one jink or potentially die. I think you want one more versatile fire base that can go across the table and hurt things. Could be a LRBT, Basilisk, Manticore. Really depends on preference.

To solve the blob and orders problem I will probably have some guardsmen congo line up the board because if I keep the CCS chimera back then only 2 chimeras will be going forward.

Also I will edit the list but there are both the scions with melta guns in the new list too!!!! With them dropping in behind some serpents thats another jink/ dead one especially if the CCS can gets fire on my target ordered to them.

Then theres always the eradicator with LC and MM's. I feel like they will do better than standard battle tanks as the standard russes will just strip 1 hull point each turn where the eradicator will kick off thosee pesky objective grabbers with ignores cover or if there are none fire the lascannons at vehicles until they are in range to use the MM's. The eradicators do have a 36" range so I believe being mid field with the vets would mean giving them MM's would threaten any vehicles with coming close.

Updated list above and now i included the scions as I forget type them in. I swapped the TC squadron for the eradicators and now I have 60pts left. I will probably go the melta bombs route so I dont have monstrous creatures or walkers keep my blob tied up for long.

After the melta bombs I would have 40points. Maybe the astropath for the CCS? Nothing like bailing from the chimera for a psychic shriek??? or maybe the inquisitor for the blob?

Liking the list. Astropath is a good idea. Maybe carapace armor on one of the vets and astropath.

Another cool option is a special weapons squad with 3 snipers. 36 points for 6 dudes to objective camp. You aren't expecting them to kill anything, and they are cheap enough, if people shoot them it's fine. Just go to ground when people target them and use them to shoot a monstrous creature all game.

I would turn those eradicators into demolishers. For this reason:

 Bonachinonin wrote:

I've noticed that it's usually the foot troops that do all the work. The platoon and vets. The tanks draw a lot of attention and eat their weight in fire, but the stuff actually killing people is the guardsmen.

I have been noticing this in my lists as well. If something needs killing, out come the ignores cover/tank hunters/monster hunters plasma vets. If you made those tanks into demolishers, your opponent just can't ignore them, leaving the chimeras largely untouched. You said you had 60 points left, so you could upgrade the eradicators to demolishers and have 20 points left over. Plus, strength 10 is handy these days.

The only problem I have is that I do not have any demolishers and I don't really have any way of picking up the turrets for them.

I added the astropath to the ccs and then melta bombs to the blob and then included carapace on the plasma vets.

I will update the final list soon.

Sounds good. Reply back here or pm me. I am curious how these changes perform for you.

A bunch of stuff came up with some classes and work so sometime mid day tomorrow I will update the list.

I played against a nid list with 2 flyrants, 2 dakka fexs in pods, zoans, Tervigon with a big termagant brood and a small one. 2 of the small spore clusters. And a trygon. I was denied so many times with psychic powers.

Another problem wasn't just denying. Between 2 lvl 1 psykers I barely could get prescience off. I need to try and my the primaris a lvl 2. I also never managed to get psychic shriek off mainly because of the denying, and most of my die rolls for warp charges were low.

My deployment was pretty poor. I used the blob too my advantage and took up most of my deployment so the flyrants couldn't get by which was good for me. But what was bad was I had the eradicators infront of the chimeras. Which ultimately lead to 1 eradicator being blown up by zoans turn 1. The chimera behind the eradicator was wrecked from the flyrant and the ccs's chimera tried to drive around through some terrain and immobilized itself....so I got bogged down in my deployment from the first 2 turns. Which really messed me up. So I need to (depending on the game) have the chimeras in the front so they can push mid field faster and hunker down.

I also forgot to use orders a couple of times. The pcs tried grav shooting out of the vendetta and had a mishap and died.

So basically everything that could go wrong pretty much did lol. I lost 11-14 so it was a close game although I was practically tabled.

My biggest concern with the list is now to make the primaris a lvl 2 to get prescience off more.

Games where nothing seems to go your way suck. Looking at the tyranid list, I feel your should be able to handle it. The hive tyrants are a challenge, but with only two, the vendetta and massed lasguns from the blob should scare them. The gaunts are not a problem so long as wyverns are alive.

Tyranids typically have a bunch of psychic dice. I use two lvl 1's most of the time, just keeping it cheap. 4-5 dice prescience unless I REALLY need it. If you get two successes or even three, the opponent has to throw so many dice to stop it. The other spells are a luxury. You can one dice things like psychic scream sometimes, perfect timing or forewarning. Just bad luck it sounds like. I mean I was able to cast spells with my two lvl 1's against a 12 dice seer council (blessings of course).

Who went first? No need to put long range guns right on the front line. The eradicators should be babied, protected in the back, and allowed to slowly grind up the field firing all the way. Alot of variables go into a game, so it's hard to say what to do in every situation.

Yea honestly the only thing that went right was all my reserves comin in on turn 2 lol and my scions grabbing 2 objectives.

But here's how turn 1 went. I went first. Started moving everything up. Primaris got prescience off(only time all game, maybe got it off another turn) but the ccs failed to give the ignores cover order for the blob. So 3/4 lascannons wounded but he made 2 cover saves. One eradicator fired everything into some zoans and they made all their saves so no Insta kills from the lascannons or MM's. The wyverns then fired at the zoans as all the rest of host army was pretty much out of range, they killed 2 of the zoans which was nice. Although the remaining zoans blew up the eradicator that fired at them. The flyrants wrecked another chimera and then the chimera behind that got immobilized in terrain. So the plasma vets in the back chimera couldn't move as a wrecked one was in front of them, an immobilized one was next to them. And the wyverns were on the other side.

Other than that the following turn I forgot orders which hurt a bit. And the with prescience not going off I never got a successful order to go with it, it always ended up being one or the other.

CCS
x4 plasma
Astropath
Chimera

Priest

Primaris psyker

scions
x2melta

scions
x2melta

PCS
x3 flamers
x4 PIS each with a LC and melta bombs(blob with priest and Psyker)

Vets
x3 melta
Chimera

Vets
x3 plasma
Carapace
Chimera

Vendetta



Eradicator-LC/MM's

Eradicator-LC/MM's

Wyvern, wyvern

I believe if points are correct Its 1750 on the dot. I was also contemplating switching one of the plasma guns in the CCS with a medic. What's the verdict on that?

No need on the medic. Just take your lumps if you roll bad. I like the list. The only thing I may consider would be swapping an eradicator for an exterminator with heavy bolters as a light tank hunter. Shoots a good distance and can force saves on infantry. AP4 is good against xenos armies too. And it's 5 points cheaper. I think that two eradicators and wyverns are all competing at the same role.

Alrighty, I will have to see about an exterminator and if I can get one up quickly. If not I will be running 2 eradicators. I will try to play test the list as much as I can but seeing as there's less than a month U till the tourney and I'm usually busy with classes and work I'm pretty limited. But I will keep things updated!