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While we don't yet know if this will be a mini codex similar to Harlequins, or a full blown release with a main Adeptus Mechanicus codex with supplements, we do have enough images to start planning how best to use these guys.

I think it's safe to assume they'll be battle brothers with most Imperium of Man codices, so these guys might bring a lot to the table in the form of an allied detachment.

What does everyone think?

I'm leaning towards a squadron of the Dragoons with radium jezzails to snipe out meltas and what not for my Astra Militarum army. Then maybe 20-30 Rangers as objective holders with their 6+ FNP.

Its a bit tough to try and figure out how they're going to play as a whole, we're still of course missing what Doctrina Imperatives are, which could be major, as well as any HQs or Relics, so we kind of just have to look at stuff in a vacuum right now.

To start, let's just compare the infantry options. I'd look at the walkers, but if the pricing ($$ not points) per model is what we think it is (50US per model) it's going to be prohibitive to run large numbers of them.

Vanguard are cheaper per model, with a shorter range gun. The Vanguard's carbine gets to put out a lot of shots, and gets semi-rending with no AP bonus but another wound. As it's an Assault 3 gun with 18" range, you really either want to stay just within 18" of whatever you're shooting at or be in assault. If you stay just in 18" you can get your shots off while denying as many of the enemy unit (if it has rapid fire guns) their extra shots. The -1T to enemies in combat seems more cute than anything else, unless you can combo them with something that can do significant melee damage from allies and benefits from the damage buff. You're probably not upgrading the sergeant with anything, so the squad just doesn't really have the attacks to really make use of the -1T. At the end of the day they're currently guardsmen with a 4+. Maybe combo with like Blood Angels or something?

Rangers are more expensive per model, but come with a 30" range gun. The Precision shot also seems more cute than anything, but if you can snipe out special weapons it can do work. These guys really want to hang out at like 30" and take shots out of range of most small arms return fire.

The Arc Rifle -- both squads can get the same amount, and they probably will, because they're great guns it seems. S6 rapid fire is great even if the AP is bad, and the Haywire means you can really threaten vehicles. There are different synergies with Vanguard and Rangers -- vanguards will get more shots off b/c rapid fire at 12", but rangers will live longer taking shots at 24". Some slight anti-synergy exists b/c ranger default weapons are 30".

Other Weapons options -- these look a bit less good, mostly because of points cost more than anything else. The caliver's Assault 3 plasma at 18" would be great for Vanguards, but paying double the price of a plasma gun isn't. The Arquebus might work in a MSU way, but it's still a single BS4 4+ to wound shot. The armor bane is funny but you don't really need it when you have Arc Rifles, and it really doesn't feel like it's worth that many points -- especially if you want reliability through numbers.

Melee weapons -- yeah how about no. They're not terrible just looking at their stats, but really don't feel like they're worth it with what we know, and because putting special weapons on sergeants in almost all other armies doesn't happen anymore either.

The Omnispex -- while it's not Ignores Cover, a -1 to cover saves on your shooting is still no joke. This means that both units can be pretty good light infantry hunters, if your enemy actually brings them.

Refractor and Conversion Field -- the main advantage of these items is that they're very cheap for the invulnerable save they grant. Two meltabombs for an Iron Halo equivalent save is nice, even if you count the blinding as a minus.

So yeah, to repeat, the stuff we still don't know about yet could really change this analysis. If Doctina Imperatives turns out to be like IG Orders, then things become totally different. The same if there are some really good relics. We also have no transports yet (although it seems one may be coming up), so right now they're limited to footslogging it or commandeering allied drop pods or other things.

In a squad with two arc rifles, is it worth the 10 points for the Alpha's arc pistol and a fifth 12" haywire shot? I lean towards yes if they're in a transport.

Also this thread would be a good place to compare them to other squads that can fit in drop pods like sisters and various marines.

Dunestriders don't look particularly impressive, but maybe it will be possible to use those against knights and lesser vehicles (full squadron at 225 pts will kill a knight on charge on average). You will need to hide them really hard in order for them to get in though. Maybe they will be situationally worth something depending on how large their models will be and whether you need to take down annoying vehicles on a regular basis in your games.

Unless I'm mistaken, they have something along the lines of ap4 and decent Str/Init with their lances (is it default loadout? not sure), so it'll provide at least some choices on what remaining few can do once opponent will put hurt on them. They will go down fast.

Their lances are Str +3/+2 AP -, causes 2 extra hits on a to-hit roll of a 6 and double their initiative on the charge.

Overall pretty good against vehicles/grenade-less light infantry but that's it.

I see little point in the phosphor serpenta if you plan to kill vehicles with these guys, too low of a strength to be of any use. Against infantry, though, it may have more use.

Honestly I like the sniper variant of the dragoons. While they are less effective against vehicles they become fairly decent MC hunters, with a 6 to-wound causing 2 wounds with no armour saves allowed.

That said, the Ironstrider is probably better at vehicle and monster hunting that the dragoon with its Twin Autocannons/Lascannons. 75 points for a better-than pseudo skyfire twin-las isn't shabby at all. That said, while it packs more punch it lacks the inherent cover save the Dragoon has and so will probably have a shorter life span while costing more...

I'm pretty disappointed by the offerings so far.

We'll have to wait on the full codex to see, I guess.

The Dragoons of Sydonia (someone's been watching Anime...) are somewhat underwhelming with their Str 8 ap - attacks, as are the sentinel priced ironstriders.

Great models though.

Vanguard in a pod put out 30 bs 4 shots for 90 pts (!!!). Pretty decent firepower but not sure their niche is yet.

I play Guard so...

1-Squad or Rangers with the 30, carbines.
2-Add in an ID (Primaris Psyker)
3-Either get the Divination power that grants ignore cover to the Psyker and his unit or Get a CCS to give Bring it Down! to The Psyker (and his joined squad)
4-Fire at whatever with ignore cover
5-Goodbye whatever I was shooting at.


The Arquebuse, while a sniper weapon, is still AP3 and armourbane, so it is still 4+2d6 against vehicle, not to mention the SIXTY INCH RANGE that puppy got.
Oh, it,s heavy? Who cares, the Skitariis are relentless. Pop Marines with ease and no need for pesky armour saves as well..

Only problem is that one kit get a single special weapon..not that it'll stop me really, I'll simply buy 2 boxes or make a squad with one of each Special wepon

Or, just do what everyone does when confronted by GW kit special weapon douchebaggery and say "both these guys with special weapons have the arquebuses"

No GW I am not buying four packages of scourges to get four heat lances and neither is anyone else, you're not generating any extra sales with this.

Either that or just change up the bits a little bit, it's not like all special weapons of one kind look exactly the same. I'm probably going to put some stuff on the plasma caliver and call it another arc rifle, they look so similar already.

I'm not even really sure you need Ignores Cover on them -- the Omnispex already reduces the cover save. Using a psyker for Twin-linking is still good though, with the amount of shots vanguards can put out.

For the walkers:
S8 AP- is good for vehicle hunting, but it does seem like Skitarii can already do that pretty well with Arc rifles or Arquebusiers if you want them. However, let's imagine sending units after Wave Serpents. They'll certainly make a few of them run away, but one or two WS volleys will really do a number on AV11. S6-7 is quite good against AV11, and that 5+ cover save is already ignored by the Serpent Shield.
Preventing Wave Serpents from shooting well is still good if you have enough Arc Rifles to take them out anyways.

The Radium Jezzails make the Dragoons a lot more like the Rangers -- hanging out at range taking potshots. Unsure whether that's worth it -- it might be if the Wide-Spectrum Data Tether (and Doctrina Imperatives) is really good, and therefore you want to keep Dragoons around infantry to buff them.

I'm not really sold on the usefulness of the Balistarius either -- we kind of need to compare these guys to Predators. While I think they're better than Preds by a bit (cheaper per weapon and have better Anti-air) nobody really takes Preds anyways, and I don't think they're better enough to really make too much of a difference. Again, if Doctrina Imperatives turns out to be able to give these guys something like Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter/Ignores Cover, then this totally changes, but just with what we know now, I probably won't spend the oodles of money to get a bunch of walkers.

The walkers actually feel more like Sentinels to me, Sentinels on space crack. Similar point value, better stats and survivability (creating your own cover helps), more angled toward assault than scout/outflanking, but I would take one or two eventually, I'm in no rush to get more models now

axisofentropy wrote:
In a squad with two arc rifles, is it worth the 10 points for the Alpha's arc pistol and a fifth 12" haywire shot? I lean towards yes if they're in a transport.

I want to say no. It would probably be better to increase the squad size and add another arc rifle or save the points for another squad.

You can have 3 arc rifles in a 10 man, or 4 in 2 5 man squads.

The pistol means means paying almost the same number of points to replace on of your normal weapons(both better than bolters) with a single shot 12" weapon. Skitarii are tougher than guard, but they arent tough enough to last very long within 12" of the enemy.