Switch Theme:

Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




I wouldn’t do it against older codices because I don’t know what tools they have to deal with 2w space marine profiles but against anyone with a 9th edition codex? From what I hear adding a second wound can be practically free and make them play approximately where they feel they should be playing. I’m worried that our models will be a single ppm cheaper than loyalists and have a crappier pool of legion traits than the loyalist equivalent, and no compensation for doctrines, leaving us crappier marines that need to lean on daemon engines like we had been, or being a one trick army relying on some double tap strat to carry our army (like it has been). I want power armor (and terminator armor) to feel like it belongs in a chaos space marine list. The new codices at least seem optimistically experimental with seeking out some sort of variation in mechanics though so I am hopeful.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Keramory wrote:
Has anyone experimented with playing chaos marines with 2 wounds, just upping the points a little to match loyalists? Did you notice any difference?


Personally I only do it with a pal of mine who plays Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. We homerule it as 2w without points increases and I still loose with my Emperor's Children most of the time
At this point we both feel bad when I try to play with 1w Noise Marines so we don't really do it any more. But it still feel like my army somewhat lags behind. Still we have some nice fun !

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Keramory wrote:
Has anyone experimented with playing chaos marines with 2 wounds, just upping the points a little to match loyalists? Did you notice any difference?


Personally I only do it with a pal of mine who plays Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. We homerule it as 2w without points increases and I still loose with my Emperor's Children most of the time
At this point we both feel bad when I try to play with 1w Noise Marines so we don't really do it any more. But it still feel like my army somewhat lags behind. Still we have some nice fun !


Never got a chance to test it because me and my group drifted away from 40k, but I had the theory that you could do 2W CSM without changing the points and it wouldn't make it that much better... "good" to see it may have had some legs.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame
And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine




I still think best csm tactics is either: daemon engines or use loyalist codex XD

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Interesting leak from Auspex tactics Channel. There are no more brood brothers in GSC. Instead, there is this rule that if you can bring an allied detachment from Astra Militarium (only certain units usable), and if its less than 25%, you still get the GSC crossfire rule.

Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM ?

The good thing is that they can just update the AM codex in future and it will affect GSC brood brothers and CSM renegade Guard equally. And it can open the way for us to ally in an allied Guard detachment to use them as renegade guard. And all the datasheets will be from the AM codex, so they will all be the same.

The bad thing is we now have to pay the CP tax to bring them as an allied detachment. This... might make me seriously look at what is interesting in the AM codex. Because have an allied renegade guard unit is pretty fluffy for a CSM force.

And maybe they will do the same thing for Daemons units too. So, same thing, if less than 25% of the force is Daemons codex taken as an allied detachment, maybe we won't lose whatever CSM battleforged rule we will get.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM?
100% dependant on miniatures. 200%, really.

They don't sell Brood Brother Chimeras/Sentinels/Russes and even the Guard Squad is an outdated box with an accessory sprue thrown in. So basically they don't sell Brood Brother minis, so it's no wonder they were deleted from the Codex.

If we get actual Traitor Guard minis as part of this apparent big release, then they'll be in the Codex. If we don't, they won't.

And I'd love for the Daemons part to be true, other than the weird 25% limit which just seems needlessly arbitrary to me. Doubly so when the game already has a built-in mechanic for determining game size (Combat Patrol/Incursion/Strike Force/Onslaught) that could be used to determine what detachment types you could bring, eg:

If playing a Combat Patrol, you can't bring anything more than a 1-3 Brood Brother Auxiliary Detachments, at Incursion you could bring up to a Patrol, Strike Force up to a Battalion, and for Onslaught a Battalion and/or other types. Same could apply to Daemons for Chaos. Use the mechanics already inherent in the rules rather than constantly trying to hammer that wheel into a better shape.





This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/10 02:57:51


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM?
100% dependant on miniatures. 200%, really.

They don't sell Brood Brother Chimeras/Sentinels/Russes and even the Guard Squad is an outdated box with an accessory sprue thrown in. So basically they don't sell Brood Brother minis, so it's no wonder they were deleted from the Codex.

If we get actual Traitor Guard minis as part of this apparent big release, then they'll be in the Codex. If we don't, they won't.

And I'd love for the Daemons part to be true, other than the weird 25% limit which just seems needlessly arbitrary to me. Doubly so when the game already has a built-in mechanic for determining game size (Combat Patrol/Incursion/Strike Force/Onslaught) that could be used to determine what detachment types you could bring, eg:

If playing a Combat Patrol, you can't bring anything more than a 1-3 Brood Brother Auxiliary Detachments, at Incursion you could bring up to a Patrol, Strike Force up to a Battalion, and for Onslaught a Battalion and/or other types. Same could apply to Daemons for Chaos. Use the mechanics already inherent in the rules rather than constantly trying to hammer that wheel into a better shape.






Well, according to the so far very accurate rumordump, we will be getting actual Traitor Guardsmen. The question is just how they'll be implemented in the codex. I'm personally hoping for the option to run a 100% Traitor Guard/LatD/R&H army, no Astartes. But we won't know what we can do with them until we hear something about the codex, which hopefully will happen sometime this decade.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The new Custodes 'Dex does allow for Sisters of Silence formations, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new Custodes 'Dex does allow for Sisters of Silence formations, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.


The question then becomes if it actually is Working, as in if you have atleast 1 unit / slot for them.

As of now, not betting on it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




So I'm thinking of making a fluffy army that was basically a loyal Space Marine chapter sacrificed to the Chaos Gods, turning them all into Chaos abominations. Possessed, Helbrutes, and Daemon Engines. It's the first list I've dabbled with using two detachments, aiming for a more daemonic and elite feel to the army.


++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [50 PL, 9CP, 905pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [10 PL, 205pts]: Khorne, Malefic talon, Warp bolter, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [9 PL, 135pts]: Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark, Reaper autocannon

Forgefiend [7 PL, 135pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Daemon jaws, No Chaos Mark

Obliterators [10 PL, 210pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 2x Obliterator: 2x Crushing fists, 2x Fleshmetal guns

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: No Chaos Mark

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: No Chaos Mark

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [60 PL, -3CP, 1,095pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [10 PL, 200pts]: 6. Exalted Champion, Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Warlord, Warptime, Wings
. Slaanesh

+ Elites +

Greater Possessed [8 PL, 130pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

Helbrute [6 PL, 110pts]: Helbrute fist, No Chaos Mark, Power scourge

Helbrute [6 PL, 115pts]: Helbrute fist, Multi-melta, No Chaos Mark

Possessed [10 PL, 200pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 10x Possessed: 10x Horrifying Mutations

Possessed [10 PL, 200pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 10x Possessed: 10x Horrifying Mutations

Possessed [10 PL, 140pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 7x Possessed: 7x Horrifying Mutations

++ Total: [110 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Garfuncle wrote:
So I'm thinking of making a fluffy army that was basically a loyal Space Marine chapter sacrificed to the Chaos Gods, turning them all into Chaos abominations. Possessed, Helbrutes, and Daemon Engines. It's the first list I've dabbled with using two detachments, aiming for a more daemonic and elite feel to the army.

Spoiler:

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [50 PL, 9CP, 905pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [10 PL, 205pts]: Khorne, Malefic talon, Warp bolter, Wings

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [9 PL, 135pts]: Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark, Reaper autocannon

Forgefiend [7 PL, 135pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Daemon jaws, No Chaos Mark

Obliterators [10 PL, 210pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 2x Obliterator: 2x Crushing fists, 2x Fleshmetal guns

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: No Chaos Mark

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 110pts]: No Chaos Mark

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [60 PL, -3CP, 1,095pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [10 PL, 200pts]: 6. Exalted Champion, Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Warlord, Warptime, Wings
. Slaanesh

+ Elites +

Greater Possessed [8 PL, 130pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

Helbrute [6 PL, 110pts]: Helbrute fist, No Chaos Mark, Power scourge

Helbrute [6 PL, 115pts]: Helbrute fist, Multi-melta, No Chaos Mark

Possessed [10 PL, 200pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 10x Possessed: 10x Horrifying Mutations

Possessed [10 PL, 200pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 10x Possessed: 10x Horrifying Mutations

Possessed [10 PL, 140pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 7x Possessed: 7x Horrifying Mutations

++ Total: [110 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


If I were you I'd take at least one Master of possession, maybe two.

On an other topic: rumour says our codex's release is planned for April and after the Chaos Knights codex !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/18 22:35:09


-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Because GW play a very different game to the rest of us.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Because GW play a very different game to the rest of us.


These are the same people that gave a 2+ save to Leman Russes and not to Baneblades for some bizarre reason, and think that the stompa is costed properly for what it does. So yeah, GW has no idea what actually works or not.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh

Aye, gw brags that the new CA is going to "buff" vehicles, and the one change to any CSM vehicles is a nerf to our one plastic LoW. And our fw LoWs are still under the 1CP Martial Legacy tax, and already looking overpriced compared to the Tau Stormsurge and leaked Eldar Wraithknight even without that. Such balance.
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have tried out my Lord of skulls in quite a few games now (I am a die hard fan). There was only one game it survived. Every other game it was dead by turn 1. And if not turn 1, then turn 2. More often than not, one round of shooting was enough to destroy it.

And these days, with so many units getting -1 damage, that Hades Gatling gun is looking weaker and weaker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 10:03:00


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.


I've used it twice since its new rules. Unfortunately it's got good damage output but it's just so easily put down. It needs something a little more just to make it slightly tougher, especially when I look at something like the Silent King or Telemon. I Imagine that's a running theme with many LOW though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 13:00:29


- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I really think for super heavies like Lord of skull or brass scorpian (not a full knight army). There should be a rule that say the model cannot lose more than half its wounds each turn. This way, we at the very least get maybe 2 turns of use out of it before it dies. Otherwise, its just not playable when we put it on the table and it then it gets killed within one turn.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Sazzlefrats wrote:
I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.


Sorry, also, how the hell did you heal it!?

- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in de
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Germany

IW stratagem. Psychic power from MoP.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Warpsmith can repair aswell.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
IW stratagem. Psychic power from MoP.


I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.


On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/31 11:26:05


- 10,000 pts CSM  
   
Made in fr
Lesser Daemon of Chaos






Semper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
IW stratagem. Psychic power from MoP.


I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.


On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...


Let's just hope that when our codex finally drops our big toys might be easier to use. On that topic, does anyone think some of our Forgeworld stuff will get massively updated ? Or it'll simply be updated in the line of our new dex ?

-"For the Ruinous Powers!" 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Semper wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
IW stratagem. Psychic power from MoP.


I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.


On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...


Let's just hope that when our codex finally drops our big toys might be easier to use. On that topic, does anyone think some of our Forgeworld stuff will get massively updated ? Or it'll simply be updated in the line of our new dex ?

Probably just updated to be in line with the codex. Gw doesn't seem to be very interested in keeping marine fw units in line with the rest of the game outside of the dreadnoughts. Compare the previously mentioned Stormsurge to the Cerberus: both are basically platforms for big guns with similar damage potentials that can be increased for sitting still, but the Stormsurge is better against T8 because its gun is S16 compared to the Cerberus' guns S14. Durability isn't anywhere close though, with the Stormsurge being 22W, T8, 2+, 4++ and the Cerberus being 20W, T8, 2+. But the Cerberus is 70 PPM more expensive. Similar comparisons can be made between the Hammerhead and Sicaran, and the "new and improved" Wraithknight and our big LoWs like Fellblades and Falchions. Gw just refuses to keep them priced in line with similar units in newer codexes.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh


I wouldn't worry about it too much, it's probably only going to be available to WE.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi guys,

are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Hi guys,

are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?
If you're more interested in rules, wait. A new Codex is on the horizon.

If you just want to build cool models, go nuts-just be aware that, well, new Codex soon. Whatever you build might not be good, or even legal.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Hi guys,

are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?


I had somewhat better chances when I went with soup. 1000 points into a Death Guard detachment and 1000 points into CSM. The 1000 points into DG gives you access to taking a core squad of DG terminators. If its deathshrouds, you get the bodyguard rule (everyone is abusing it, we might as well). Plus then you get some truly resilient infantry that even go up and fight in the center. Also, you get in heavy support plague burst crawlers, which are now our best tanks in the game (I say that with confidence). Now we get our own out of line of sight shooting too, and they have D3+3 damage entropy cannons. We can stop caring about our lascannons.

Then the 1000 points in our own CSM detachment we can outfit as we see fit. but at 60 points, I kind of like 3 squads of CSM now. Has armor 3+ and can at least fight well in close combat. And cheap so can throwaway to do objectives and actions and stuff. Similarly, we can take raptors. They are very cheap and can deep strike in, again to do actions like Retrieve Data or just charge and fight something.

So, now we have a resilient core of DG terminators that can bully the center if we wish. We got good tanks (PBC). We got cheap stuff to do actions, deep strike in all over the board and do objectives. The rest is up to you how you want to design your army then. But at least now we don't feel so fragile (DG adds a lot to our resilience). And CSM has the mobility and cheap stuff which DG lacks too. So its a good mix. We are a 8th edition codex, so we don't care about souping.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Someone please explain to me when the dreadclaw drop pod is considered to have moved over an enemy unit to cause mortal wounds. Moving when? The turn it lands? How do you determine what it’s flying over ?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: