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I wouldn’t do it against older codices because I don’t know what tools they have to deal with 2w space marine profiles but against anyone with a 9th edition codex? From what I hear adding a second wound can be practically free and make them play approximately where they feel they should be playing. I’m worried that our models will be a single ppm cheaper than loyalists and have a crappier pool of legion traits than the loyalist equivalent, and no compensation for doctrines, leaving us crappier marines that need to lean on daemon engines like we had been, or being a one trick army relying on some double tap strat to carry our army (like it has been). I want power armor (and terminator armor) to feel like it belongs in a chaos space marine list. The new codices at least seem optimistically experimental with seeking out some sort of variation in mechanics though so I am hopeful.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut
Keramory wrote: Has anyone experimented with playing chaos marines with 2 wounds, just upping the points a little to match loyalists? Did you notice any difference?
Personally I only do it with a pal of mine who plays Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. We homerule it as 2w without points increases and I still loose with my Emperor's Children most of the time
At this point we both feel bad when I try to play with 1w Noise Marines so we don't really do it any more. But it still feel like my army somewhat lags behind. Still we have some nice fun !
Keramory wrote: Has anyone experimented with playing chaos marines with 2 wounds, just upping the points a little to match loyalists? Did you notice any difference?
Personally I only do it with a pal of mine who plays Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. We homerule it as 2w without points increases and I still loose with my Emperor's Children most of the time
At this point we both feel bad when I try to play with 1w Noise Marines so we don't really do it any more. But it still feel like my army somewhat lags behind. Still we have some nice fun !
Never got a chance to test it because me and my group drifted away from 40k, but I had the theory that you could do 2W CSM without changing the points and it wouldn't make it that much better... "good" to see it may have had some legs.
Interesting leak from Auspex tactics Channel. There are no more brood brothers in GSC. Instead, there is this rule that if you can bring an allied detachment from Astra Militarium (only certain units usable), and if its less than 25%, you still get the GSC crossfire rule.
Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM ?
The good thing is that they can just update the AM codex in future and it will affect GSC brood brothers and CSM renegade Guard equally. And it can open the way for us to ally in an allied Guard detachment to use them as renegade guard. And all the datasheets will be from the AM codex, so they will all be the same.
The bad thing is we now have to pay the CP tax to bring them as an allied detachment. This... might make me seriously look at what is interesting in the AM codex. Because have an allied renegade guard unit is pretty fluffy for a CSM force.
And maybe they will do the same thing for Daemons units too. So, same thing, if less than 25% of the force is Daemons codex taken as an allied detachment, maybe we won't lose whatever CSM battleforged rule we will get.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM?
100% dependant on miniatures. 200%, really.
They don't sell Brood Brother Chimeras/Sentinels/Russes and even the Guard Squad is an outdated box with an accessory sprue thrown in. So basically they don't sell Brood Brother minis, so it's no wonder they were deleted from the Codex.
If we get actual Traitor Guard minis as part of this apparent big release, then they'll be in the Codex. If we don't, they won't.
And I'd love for the Daemons part to be true, other than the weird 25% limit which just seems needlessly arbitrary to me. Doubly so when the game already has a built-in mechanic for determining game size (Combat Patrol/Incursion/Strike Force/Onslaught) that could be used to determine what detachment types you could bring, eg:
If playing a Combat Patrol, you can't bring anything more than a 1-3 Brood Brother Auxiliary Detachments, at Incursion you could bring up to a Patrol, Strike Force up to a Battalion, and for Onslaught a Battalion and/or other types. Same could apply to Daemons for Chaos. Use the mechanics already inherent in the rules rather than constantly trying to hammer that wheel into a better shape.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/10 02:57:51
Eldenfirefly wrote: Could this possibly also be the way they will handle Renegade Guard for CSM?
100% dependant on miniatures. 200%, really.
They don't sell Brood Brother Chimeras/Sentinels/Russes and even the Guard Squad is an outdated box with an accessory sprue thrown in. So basically they don't sell Brood Brother minis, so it's no wonder they were deleted from the Codex.
If we get actual Traitor Guard minis as part of this apparent big release, then they'll be in the Codex. If we don't, they won't.
And I'd love for the Daemons part to be true, other than the weird 25% limit which just seems needlessly arbitrary to me. Doubly so when the game already has a built-in mechanic for determining game size (Combat Patrol/Incursion/Strike Force/Onslaught) that could be used to determine what detachment types you could bring, eg:
If playing a Combat Patrol, you can't bring anything more than a 1-3 Brood Brother Auxiliary Detachments, at Incursion you could bring up to a Patrol, Strike Force up to a Battalion, and for Onslaught a Battalion and/or other types. Same could apply to Daemons for Chaos. Use the mechanics already inherent in the rules rather than constantly trying to hammer that wheel into a better shape.
Well, according to the so far very accurate rumordump, we will be getting actual Traitor Guardsmen. The question is just how they'll be implemented in the codex. I'm personally hoping for the option to run a 100% Traitor Guard/LatD/R&H army, no Astartes. But we won't know what we can do with them until we hear something about the codex, which hopefully will happen sometime this decade.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The new Custodes 'Dex does allow for Sisters of Silence formations, so it's not outside the realm of possibility.
The question then becomes if it actually is Working, as in if you have atleast 1 unit / slot for them.
As of now, not betting on it.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
So I'm thinking of making a fluffy army that was basically a loyal Space Marine chapter sacrificed to the Chaos Gods, turning them all into Chaos abominations. Possessed, Helbrutes, and Daemon Engines. It's the first list I've dabbled with using two detachments, aiming for a more daemonic and elite feel to the army.
Garfuncle wrote: So I'm thinking of making a fluffy army that was basically a loyal Space Marine chapter sacrificed to the Chaos Gods, turning them all into Chaos abominations. Possessed, Helbrutes, and Daemon Engines. It's the first list I've dabbled with using two detachments, aiming for a more daemonic and elite feel to the army.
Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Eldenfirefly wrote: Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Because GW play a very different game to the rest of us.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Because GW play a very different game to the rest of us.
These are the same people that gave a 2+ save to Leman Russes and not to Baneblades for some bizarre reason, and think that the stompa is costed properly for what it does. So yeah, GW has no idea what actually works or not.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
Aye, gw brags that the new CA is going to "buff" vehicles, and the one change to any CSM vehicles is a nerf to our one plastic LoW. And our fwLoWs are still under the 1CP Martial Legacy tax, and already looking overpriced compared to the Tau Stormsurge and leaked Eldar Wraithknight even without that. Such balance.
I have tried out my Lord of skulls in quite a few games now (I am a die hard fan). There was only one game it survived. Every other game it was dead by turn 1. And if not turn 1, then turn 2. More often than not, one round of shooting was enough to destroy it.
And these days, with so many units getting -1 damage, that Hades Gatling gun is looking weaker and weaker.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 10:03:00
I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.
Sazzlefrats wrote: I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.
I've used it twice since its new rules. Unfortunately it's got good damage output but it's just so easily put down. It needs something a little more just to make it slightly tougher, especially when I look at something like the Silent King or Telemon. I Imagine that's a running theme with many LOW though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 13:00:29
I really think for super heavies like Lord of skull or brass scorpian (not a full knight army). There should be a rule that say the model cannot lose more than half its wounds each turn. This way, we at the very least get maybe 2 turns of use out of it before it dies. Otherwise, its just not playable when we put it on the table and it then it gets killed within one turn.
Sazzlefrats wrote: I just ran a brass scorpion... it lived until bottom of turn 3. It could not survive 2 turns in combat with scorptek destroyers (the mellee ones). If I recall I was charged, I fell back and charged back in after I healed it... but yeah... it died. Course the work it did in shooting on the first two turns was crazy.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.
On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/31 11:26:05
I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.
On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...
Let's just hope that when our codex finally drops our big toys might be easier to use. On that topic, does anyone think some of our Forgeworld stuff will get massively updated ? Or it'll simply be updated in the line of our new dex ?
I didn't think it could be affected by any friendly psychic powers? EDIT: Read the rules again. It can. Ignore me.
On a side note, in comparison to the stormsurge, the GBS is laughable. Just even on defensive points. SS - T8, 22W, 4++, 2+ for I think I heard 340pts. GBS - T8, 28W, 5++, 3+ and healing 1 wound per turn for 525pts. Damage output is more reliable on the stormsurge too and I think they can get drones...
Let's just hope that when our codex finally drops our big toys might be easier to use. On that topic, does anyone think some of our Forgeworld stuff will get massively updated ? Or it'll simply be updated in the line of our new dex ?
Probably just updated to be in line with the codex. Gw doesn't seem to be very interested in keeping marine fw units in line with the rest of the game outside of the dreadnoughts. Compare the previously mentioned Stormsurge to the Cerberus: both are basically platforms for big guns with similar damage potentials that can be increased for sitting still, but the Stormsurge is better against T8 because its gun is S16 compared to the Cerberus' guns S14. Durability isn't anywhere close though, with the Stormsurge being 22W, T8, 2+, 4++ and the Cerberus being 20W, T8, 2+. But the Cerberus is 70 PPM more expensive. Similar comparisons can be made between the Hammerhead and Sicaran, and the "new and improved" Wraithknight and our big LoWs like Fellblades and Falchions. Gw just refuses to keep them priced in line with similar units in newer codexes.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Sad that Lord of skulls actually went up 15 points in the latest chapter approved. A big superheavy that cannot hide just gets deleted so easily nowadays. Why did it go up 15 points... sigh
I wouldn't worry about it too much, it's probably only going to be available to WE.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?
are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?
If you're more interested in rules, wait. A new Codex is on the horizon.
If you just want to build cool models, go nuts-just be aware that, well, new Codex soon. Whatever you build might not be good, or even legal.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
are there currently any advice regarding starting into CSM beside ,don’t’? Everything I look ip about CSM looks damn grim. I have gathered some kits the last couple of weeks but am simply afraid to build them as CSM future seems so uncertain. I initially tought about converting the models into a Dornian Heresy Space Wolves but with the rumour about an upcoming WorldEater Standalone Tome I feel quite uncertain about it as I don’t know what units will be invalidated. Am I too grim on this? Has anyone maybe a tip how to get out of this frustrating state?
I had somewhat better chances when I went with soup. 1000 points into a Death Guard detachment and 1000 points into CSM. The 1000 points into DG gives you access to taking a core squad of DG terminators. If its deathshrouds, you get the bodyguard rule (everyone is abusing it, we might as well). Plus then you get some truly resilient infantry that even go up and fight in the center. Also, you get in heavy support plague burst crawlers, which are now our best tanks in the game (I say that with confidence). Now we get our own out of line of sight shooting too, and they have D3+3 damage entropy cannons. We can stop caring about our lascannons.
Then the 1000 points in our own CSM detachment we can outfit as we see fit. but at 60 points, I kind of like 3 squads of CSM now. Has armor 3+ and can at least fight well in close combat. And cheap so can throwaway to do objectives and actions and stuff. Similarly, we can take raptors. They are very cheap and can deep strike in, again to do actions like Retrieve Data or just charge and fight something.
So, now we have a resilient core of DG terminators that can bully the center if we wish. We got good tanks (PBC). We got cheap stuff to do actions, deep strike in all over the board and do objectives. The rest is up to you how you want to design your army then. But at least now we don't feel so fragile (DG adds a lot to our resilience). And CSM has the mobility and cheap stuff which DG lacks too. So its a good mix. We are a 8th edition codex, so we don't care about souping.
Someone please explain to me when the dreadclaw drop pod is considered to have moved over an enemy unit to cause mortal wounds. Moving when? The turn it lands? How do you determine what it’s flying over ?