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So I am wondering if Sanctuary works with the KFF/MFF. Does it make the KFF bubble a 4++ on any unit in the Bubble or only the unit that the Mek and Weirdboy attached to? I feel like it should work on the bubble. So would provide a 4++ bubble to Kans lets say if they are in the KFF's range.

What do you think?

Yes it will stack, but only on the unit Sanctuary is cast on.

Yes I understand that.

The Mek is part of that unit. His only Inv save is the KFF. Which has a rule to extend out to other units possibly. So by that rationality his increased Inv save would effect other units in his bubble range because his inv save is boosted with Sanctuary. That's the way I am reading it.

Only the unit that sanctuary is cast on would benefit from the boosted inv

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Yes I understand that.

The Mek is part of that unit. His only Inv save is the KFF. Which has a rule to extend out to other units possibly. So by that rationality his increased Inv save would effect other units in his bubble range because his inv save is boosted with Sanctuary. That's the way I am reading it.

The 5+ invuln is given to units in the bubble. Sanctuary only increases the invuln of a single unit.

Casting Sanctuary on the unit with the KFF in it will not increase the KFF's bubble to providing a 4+, it only effects the unit with Sanctuary on it.

So if you have 3 units in the radius of the KFF, and you cast Sanctuary on the unit with the KFF bearer. The KFF bearers unit will have a 4+ invuln, the other two units will only have a 5+ invuln.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Yes I understand that.

The Mek is part of that unit. His only Inv save is the KFF. Which has a rule to extend out to other units possibly. So by that rationality his increased Inv save would effect other units in his bubble range because his inv save is boosted with Sanctuary. That's the way I am reading it.

That is an extremely... "creative" way of reading the rules involved.

 DarkLink wrote:

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Yes I understand that.

The Mek is part of that unit. His only Inv save is the KFF. Which has a rule to extend out to other units possibly. So by that rationality his increased Inv save would effect other units in his bubble range because his inv save is boosted with Sanctuary. That's the way I am reading it.

That is an extremely... "creative" way of reading the rules involved.

It makes sense to me. The model (Mek) gets the increase save. Is it my fault that the model (Mek) has a special rule where his inv goes out to other units?

Why discredit his wargear?

Thats not how it works at all.

The Mek has a piece of wargear that gives 5+ Invuln saves to every unit within a distance of the model with the KFF.

Then, there is a psychic power cast on the unit the Mek is in which gives +1 to that units invulnerable saves. It does change the fact the KFF still only provides a 5+ invuln.

This is actually rather interesting, I would probably give it to the KFF increasing its Invul to a 4+ bubble. The blessing only targets the unit but the unit doesn't have an invul only the mek boy and his Invul is a bubble so theoretically that increases the bubbles strength. With that said, please keep in mind that hte KFF is only a 6in bubble so not OP.

Does the KFF say "all units in 6 get the meks invuln"? Or does it say "all units in 6 get a 5++"?

Yes and theres also no specific rule about me launching real missiles into the table. shall we play other random word games dark?

The rules for the KFF say that all Models within 6in receive the invul. When you increase the Meks invul its not just his invul its his bubble.

Again, that isnt how the rule is worded. It improves HIS invul save. He isnt, however, passing HIS invul save to anyone - the KFF is granting a fixed save of 5++ to everyone nearby. His save getting improved to 4++ has no bearing on this.

DarkLink has a point. Does the KFF give the Meks save to other units within six inches, or does KFF give every unit within six inches a 5++? These are two distinctly different effects.

I'm fairly certain it's the second one, because that's how most bubble effects work. Since the KFF is giving units their own 5++, increasing the Meks save wouldn't affect them.

So imagine a green tide, with MFF, sanctuary, hammerhand and warpath....

Models within 6".
Not units.

Nobody uses a KFF in a green tide because as grendel pointed out its MODELS not units. Therefore for the most part KFF is only used sparingly at best.

SIDE NOTE: KFF and now the MFF from the ghaz supplement are literally the ONLY Invuls in the Ork army.

if you cast sanctuary on the big meks unit only the models in his unit, within 6" would be a 4++. The rest of his unit, not within 6" would have a 6++.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not how it works at all.

The Mek has a piece of wargear that gives 5+ Invuln saves to every unit within a distance of the model with the KFF.

Then, there is a psychic power cast on the unit the Mek is in which gives +1 to that units invulnerable saves. It does change the fact the KFF still only provides a 5+ invuln.

The Mek is getting the +1 to its saves. Does it or should it matter that there are extra rules for his wargear to extend his INV save to other models? the psychic power affects HIS INV save, period. His INV save has extra rules that extend it out to other models. Plan and simple. It should work IMHO. I can't see any other reason why it doesn't.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
The Mek is getting the +1 to its saves. Does it or should it matter that there are extra rules for his wargear to extend his INV save to other models? the psychic power affects HIS INV save, period. His INV save has extra rules that extend it out to other models. Plan and simple. It should work IMHO. I can't see any other reason why it doesn't.

No, the others do not receive the Mek's save. Have you read the rules for the Kustom Force Field?

The bearer, and all models within 6", receive a 5+ invulnerable save against any shooting attacks.

They receive a 5+ Invulnerable save from the Kustom Force Field. They do not receive the Mek's save.

But the Meks save is also the KFF save, how can one increase but not the other? He doesn't have a save by himself. The KFF is what gives the save to both him and all other models within 6". So if Sanctuary gives him and increased save then it should give all within 6" an increased save, right?

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
But the Meks save is also the KFF save, how can one increase but not the other? He doesn't have a save by himself. The KFF is what gives the save to both him and all other models within 6". So if Sanctuary gives him and increased save then it should give all within 6" an increased save, right?

No.
Because that's not what Sancuary does. It gives the target unit an increased save. And it's not what the KFF does. It gives a save to everyone covered.

The KFF does not grant the Mek's save to everyone covered. People are making that up.

The KFF's given save never changes. Only the unit sanctuary is cast on changes.

A gives B and C a 5+ invuln.

Sanctuary is cast on B, but that doesn't change the fact that A still only gives a 5+ invuln. This is not complicated.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
But the Meks save is also the KFF save, how can one increase but not the other? He doesn't have a save by himself. The KFF is what gives the save to both him and all other models within 6". So if Sanctuary gives him and increased save then it should give all within 6" an increased save, right?

No. Again, just because the Mek gets a bonus to his Invulnerable save doesn't mean that the Kustom Force Field gets a bonus to the save it (and not the Mek) gives to those within range. Why is that so hard to understand?

 Grey Templar wrote:
The KFF's given save never changes. Only the unit sanctuary is cast on changes.

A gives B and C a 5+ invuln.

Sanctuary is cast on B, but that doesn't change the fact that A still only gives a 5+ invuln. This is not complicated.

So a iron halo is never increased then either? Same effect. Its wargear. Sanctuary gives an increase to inv saves. Santuary does not distinguish how the model gets the inv save, right? it says it adds +1 to the inv save the model gets. It just happens that the save is a bubble. Would it work with the Dark Angel Power Field Generator? I don't see why not, its the same effect.

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The KFF's given save never changes. Only the unit sanctuary is cast on changes.

A gives B and C a 5+ invuln.

Sanctuary is cast on B, but that doesn't change the fact that A still only gives a 5+ invuln. This is not complicated.

So a iron halo is never increased then either? Same effect. Its wargear. Sanctuary gives an increase to inv saves. Santuary does not distinguish how the model gets the inv save, right? it says it adds +1 to the inv save the model gets. It just happens that the save is a bubble. Would it work with the Dark Angel Power Field Generator? I don't see why not, its the same effect.

No, it's not.

Stop looking at it like that, because that's just not correct. In addition, the save from the KFF is never changed - the model just gets a bonus to his invul.

Why is it not? Explain to me why its not? Besides its not.

Does it work for the Power fireld generator?

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Why is it not? Explain to me why its not? Besides its not.

The ability gives models in an area an invul save.
The invul save is not a bubble.

Do you see the difference?

Does it work for the Power fireld generator?

I don't believe so - I'd have to double check the wording of the PFG. If they're significantly different (ie. the PFG says "gives this model's invul save to units within 3"" or something) then I could see it working.

ok, So going by the logic that sanctuary doesn't increase the invulnerable save of someone that has wargear on, that means i believe that the only things in the game that get a buff from Sanctuary would be demons since their invul is built into them because they are demons.

So that means that Rosarius, Iron Halo, Storm Shield, none of these get a bonus because Sanctuary doesn't increase the invul save from a piece of wargear.....

Wait....that doesn't seem right. Maybe its that Sanctuary DOES increase the invul save that a piece of wargear grants and that means that the KFF becomes a 4+ for everyone, except that the Mek and his unit get a 6+ in CC. But I might be wrong and im sure someone is about to say "YOUR WRONG, because...."

The Wargear grants a save to any model within 6" (including the Mek).
Anyone in range of the Blessing gets an increase to their inv save.

The save that the Mek gets doesn't matter, it isn't the Meks save that is bring passed on.

The save listed in the Wargear is what is being passed on. Not the Meks save. Any bonuses granted to the Mek make no difference.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
ok, So going by the logic that sanctuary doesn't increase the invulnerable save of someone that has wargear on

I've literally never said that, at all. Please don't make things up. It's also nothing like "that logic" at all.

The Mek has an invul save. Yes? That invul save is improved.
Does the Mek's invul save get used for other models? No. Never. Asserting otherwise is literally making up rules.