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Been running this tired ol' list for way too long now, with very mixed results. Would really appreciate any feedback or criticisms on what I've got, I feel like I'm lacking a few of the more competitive units to help round out my current list:

Single CAD

HQ

Chaos Lord [170 pts] warlord
Power armor (Axe of blind fury and bolt pistol)
Mark of Khorne
Juggernaut
Sigil of corruption

Sorcerer [150 pts]
Terminator armor (combi-melta and force sword)
Mark of Tzeentch
Mastery level 3

Elites

Terminators [219 pts]
Mark of Tzeentch
4X w/ combi-melta's and power swords
1X Champion w/ combi-melta and power fist

Troops

Cultists [60 pts]
9X w/ autoguns
1X Champion w/ autogun

Marines [220 pts]
7X w/ bolters
2X w/ plasma guns
1X Champion w/ CCW and bolt pistol
Rhino w/ dirge casters and dozer blade

Fast Attack

Bikers [121 pts]
Mark of Khorne
1X w/ standard bolter
2X w/ meltas
1X Champion w/ power fist

Heavy Support

Predator [145 pts]
2X sponson las cannons
1X turret TL las cannon
Dozer blade

Havocs [115 pts]
4X autocannons

Forgefiend [200 pts]
3X ectoplasma cannons

Fortifications

Aegis defense line w/ quad gun

Plan is typically rush juggerlord down field with bikers followed by CSM in rhino. Cultists hang back with quad gun for backfield/AA. Havocs and forgefiend deploy wherever they can do the most damage (light armor/MEQ's respectively). However my sorcerer and terminators never seem to have a good place to go. If I deepstrike them, I miss some turns of physic powers, but if they footslog with no land raider they just get picked apart. Should I stick them in a land raider? Or drop the idea of them altogether?

Again, very open to suggestions and would love to hear and thoughts.

So looking over the list, I'm already thinking I could do with dropping some points dumped into my HQ's. Is it a good idea to put all your eggs in a chaos lord shaped basket?

Drop sorc and termi. If you still want termi then only rake 3 with just 3combi melta. no frills

Only reason I'm scared to drop the sorc is I would be left with 0 psychic levels. Is that dangerous? Or if I'm not investing heavily in psykers, maybe I should just avoid them altogether.

A great player said this to me about having psychics, "either don't bother (half assing it) or do it right and have a plan". If he doesn't have a good plan for the psychic to augment his list he will cut it.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

So I am not sure if you are trying to stay themed in MoK so I am going to go with a yes.

The Lord is solid with the Bikers, but I would also give the Champion a Combi-Melta to be able to pop a 3HP vehicle in one turn.

I agree with the others above you don't seem to invested in the sorcerer so i would drop it. You could also drop the Lord Kite the sorcerer out as you had the lord with no mark roll on Bio and hope to get Warp speed and Iron Arm.

I would go with the Termies with MoK (for the theme) or MoN as they are going to eat more bolter fire deep striking than anything.

Drop the outguns from the cultists as well. going with the pistols gives you 2 attacks.

I also prefer the auto cannons over the plasma cannon on the Fiend. The ectoplasm is a small blast and it misses a lot with a scatter being BS3

Havocs are pretty squishy so I am not a fan of them. I would also take a very minimum Lord with AoDG to man the Quad gun to get a nice BS5 firing it.

I don't know if you are looking at buying anything new but if so I would go for some Oblits to replace the Havocs.

Thanks for all of the advice, really appreciate it. I'm definitely dropping the sorcerer. The words of Ron Swanson "Never half ass two things. Whole ass one thing". Unless I'm sticking him in an effective unit or specializing with loads of powers, there's no good reason to take him.

Also dropping autoguns on cultists, and will rely on them getting into CC to tarpit and hopefully throw out a good number of attacks at whatever they find.

I don't currently have any Spawn models, though need to invest in them. Seems like they are a great fast attack you can sweep infantry with.

Working on an 1850 point tournament list now, based on all of the pointers here.

For normal chaos marines I would never take marines, I always run 2 squads of cultists, if the enemy kills them they wasted firepower on a cheap unit, if they don't you have an objective secured unit running around. There's also no reason not to take a drake, even after the nerf with careful planning they easily are our beat anti infantry unit by far. This part is just personal taste, I don't make a list without a pair of maulers, these bad boys when played right spell death for a vehicle a turn each, I love them and they have never let me down. Plus if you ever ally with daemons you can cast grimoire on one to give it a 3+ invo, the wolf player in my group throws a fit whenever I pull that combo out

Ha, that would be an awesome way to run mauler fiends. I'm thinking of dropping the forgefiend and taking double maulers.

I would love to run a drake, but have yet to purchase the model. And I like your idea on normal marines, replacing with cultists.

Do you run min 10 man squads on cultists? Autoguns or pistols?

Havocs with autocannons are great - forget squishy...if your opponent is shooting at them he isn't shooting at your stuff rushing his ass.


Generally speaking I prefer Spawn with the Juggerlord since he can reroll charge distances...bikes rob him of this.


Sorcerers should ALWAYS have a Spell Familiar. Best 15 points you can spend on a psyker, hands down. You would do better to leave him unmarked and join him up with the Bikers (or spawn as the case would be) to have a nice little deathstar.

It gives you a bit of play too - Telepathy is pretty amazing (invisible spawn? hell yeah!), as is Biomancy if you want to make a Jedi sorcerer. Biomancy can also buff the unit nicely...Spawn with Endurance are kind of absurd.





If you have the models, one of the best ways to play CSM is a rush list. 2-3X Maulers, 2-3x Spawn units (or Bikers) with attached ICs (usually I roll Sorcerer and AoBF lord in the CAD, then an allied Crimson Slaughter lord on a bike with MoN and all the goodies), cultists to taste...it works very well. People don't expect you to get off reliable T2 assaults but spawn are FAST.

I agree with the havocs, reasons I prefer them is the amount of bodies to soak up wounds, versus all your eggs in a basket as is the case with obliterators. (also, I spent too much time and money on forgeworld Mk.4 armor and painting to leave them home)

The bikes do seem to limit the juggerlord, especially when going through terrain.

I never really played with the idea of a sorcerer mounted on a bike or some such, that's actually a really interesting idea... Might give that a go with some proxies. Only hard part for me is I try to save $$$ by purchasing my models from my LGS in his used inventory. Great deals and interesting finds, but no reliability for what you might come across. Here's to hoping I see some drakes and maulers soon!

Bikers move 12" through cover and are not slowed when charging through cover. The only thing is having to take dangerous terrain rolls when you do it 1/18 chance lf loosing a bike.

The best units in Codex CSM are:

Bel'kor
Kharn
Nurgle spawn
jugger lords
Nurgle fist/claw biker lords
Nurgle princes
Heldrake
Nurgle or khorne bikers
Plague marines
Nurgle obliterators
Havoks (I prefer 4 melta/plasma in a rhino)
Maulerfiends
Helcult formations
Typhus and zombies

And that is about the order of goodness with the stuff at the top being top notch and the stuff at the bottom being about average compared to other codexes.

Now you can take other stuff too (I even ran mutilators last game ha ha) but you really want a core of these decent units to do the heavy lifting.