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I wasn't able to ascertain from the rulebook but if a troop unit with objective secured is joined by a HQ independent character that does not have objective secured does the unit still benefit from objective secured?

Yes they do. They would still have it but the hq still does not.

So consider the following

a independent character HQ without objective secured has joined a troop unit with objective secured
the IC is within 3" of the objective and the rest of the unit he has joined isn't

since the IC is part of the unit he is holding the objective with objective secured?

Yes, because you measure to the unit and not specific models in the unit.

And the unit has objective secured.

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, because you measure to the unit and not specific models in the unit.

And the unit has objective secured.

I don't think this is correct.

The OS special rule is not conferred to all models in the unit, otherwise the rule would state it so.

Objective Secured is a unit level rule. It only cares if a unit has it, not models in the unit. And ICs are part of a unit 'for all rule purposes'.

I dont think so. Read the rules on ICs and Special Rules.

Page 166 BRB for ICs and then Pg 122 for the OS special rule.

 Falco wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, because you measure to the unit and not specific models in the unit.

And the unit has objective secured.

I don't think this is correct.

The OS special rule is not conferred to all models in the unit, otherwise the rule would state it so.

I never said it was conferred to the entire unit.

Let's start this way - How do you know you've "secured" an objective?

 Falco wrote:
I dont think so. Read the rules on ICs and Special Rules.

Page 166 BRB for ICs and then Pg 122 for the OS special rule.

Is the IC part of the unit?
Yes
Is the unit within 3" of the objective?
Yes
Does the unit have 'Objective Secured'?
Yes
Is the unit controlling the objective with 'Objective Secured'?
Yes

The IC does not need Objective Secured to confer to him. He's part of the unit and that's all we need to know.

Zimko wrote:

 Falco wrote:
I dont think so. Read the rules on ICs and Special Rules.

Page 166 BRB for ICs and then Pg 122 for the OS special rule.

Is the IC part of the unit?
Yes
Is the unit within 3" of the objective?
Yes
Does the unit have 'Objective Secured'?
Yes
Is the unit controlling the objective with 'Objective Secured'?
Yes

The IC does not need Objective Secured to confer to him. He's part of the unit and that's all we need to know.

That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Objective Secured - "All Troops units from this Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule."

So, yes, OS is totally a unit level special rule. It doesn't confer to individual models. The unit as a whole has the rule. But how do we control objectives?

Controlling Objective Markers - "You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it."

So, I need at least one model in the unit to be within 3" of the objective. Is the IC considered to be a model in the unit?

Independent Characters - "While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Yes, he is considered to be a model in the unit.

Ergo, if an IC attached to a Troops choice with the OS special rule is within 3" of an objective marker, the Troops choice is controlling it and OS is in effect.

 Falco wrote:
That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Where do the rules say that the unit no longer has Objective Secured if there is a model in the unit without that special rule? Because that is exactly what your argument leads to. You're trying to claim that models have Objective Secured, not units

 Kriswall wrote:
Objective Secured - "All Troops units from this Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule."

So, yes, OS is totally a unit level special rule. It doesn't confer to individual models. The unit as a whole has the rule. But how do we control objectives?

Controlling Objective Markers - "You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it."

So, I need at least one model in the unit to be within 3" of the objective. Is the IC considered to be a model in the unit?

Independent Characters - "While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Yes, he is considered to be a model in the unit.

Ergo, if an IC attached to a Troops choice with the OS special rule is within 3" of an objective marker, the Troops choice is controlling it and OS is in effect.

Independent Characters - "While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Correct, for things like charging, shooting, overwatch, etc, etc. Last piece of this rule would lead to reading further into the rules for characters. The rule for Special rules still applies to the IC in the unit. Does OS state that if one model has it, they all do? No,the Troop unit has it. From my interpretation, just because he is part of the unit does not mean he gains OS otherwise the rule would have stated that.

Under the same line of reasoning any IC that is joined to, lets say a Death Company Squad, would gain all their special rules? Since he is part of the unit?

But, I guess I am in the minority here with this interpretation. Its just the way I have always played it.

 Falco wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Objective Secured - "All Troops units from this Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule."

So, yes, OS is totally a unit level special rule. It doesn't confer to individual models. The unit as a whole has the rule. But how do we control objectives?

Controlling Objective Markers - "You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it."

So, I need at least one model in the unit to be within 3" of the objective. Is the IC considered to be a model in the unit?

Independent Characters - "While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Yes, he is considered to be a model in the unit.

Ergo, if an IC attached to a Troops choice with the OS special rule is within 3" of an objective marker, the Troops choice is controlling it and OS is in effect.

Independent Characters - "While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters."

Correct, for things like charging, shooting, overwatch, etc, etc. Last piece of this rule would lead to reading further into the rules for characters. The rule for Special rules still applies to the IC in the unit. Does OS state that if one model has it, they all do? No,the Troop unit has it. From my interpretation, just because he is part of the unit does not mean he gains OS otherwise the rule would have stated that.

Under the same line of reasoning any IC that is joined to, lets say a Death Company Squad, would gain all their special rules? Since he is part of the unit?

But, I guess I am in the minority here with this interpretation. Its just the way I have always played it.

None of the models in the unit gain the rule. The unit itself gains the rule. Controlling an objective simply requires that at least one model in the unit be within 3". The IC is a model in the unit, for all rules purposes... including whether or not the objective is controlled. Once we've established that a unit is controlling an objective, the OS rule just adds a note telling us that we can ignore enemy units that don't have the OS rule.

Remember that OS isn't a special rule in the sense of Shred or Stealth. It's a Detachment Command Benefit. You seem to think the models in the unit have the OS rule. Never happens. The unit as a whole has the rule.

 Falco wrote:
That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Maybe if I bold it you'll read it.

No one is saying that OS confers to the IC.

Do you understand that now?


Please answer the question: How do you know if a unit controls an objective?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Falco wrote:
That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Maybe if I bold it you'll read it.

No one is saying that OS confers to the IC.

Do you understand that now?


Please answer the question: How do you know if a unit controls an objective?

Chill out dude. You don't need to get snippy. Its toy soldiers.



Your question was answered already. The unit needs to be within 3".

Actually you didnt answer itb at the time..

OK, so if the UNIT needs to be within 3", and you measure to the IC, who is a member of the UNIT, is the UNIT within 3"?

then, if the unit is within 3", does the unit have Objective Secured? Note you CANNOT refer tot he IC any longer - OS is a unit level rule, and so is controlling an objective.

 Falco wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Falco wrote:
That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Maybe if I bold it you'll read it.

No one is saying that OS confers to the IC.

Do you understand that now?


Please answer the question: How do you know if a unit controls an objective?

Chill out dude. You don't need to get snippy. Its toy soldiers.

Well, when you ignore the statement multiple times, you need something to call your attention to it. I'm not being snippy - I'm trying to get your attention.

Your question was answered already. The unit needs to be within 3".

I'd love to see where you answered it - if you did, I apologize.

Great! Now, how do you measure to the unit?

 Falco wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Falco wrote:
That's not correct. OS does not transfer to the IC just because its part of the unit. Special rules need to specifically state that it is conferred to all models in the unit, such as Stubborn and Move through cover.

Maybe if I bold it you'll read it.

No one is saying that OS confers to the IC.

Do you understand that now?


Please answer the question: How do you know if a unit controls an objective?

Chill out dude. You don't need to get snippy. Its toy soldiers.



Your question was answered already. The unit needs to be within 3".

The Unit needs to be within 3" to control an objective. If the Unit has Objective Secured, the Unit continues to control the objective even when an enemy Unit is in range (unless that enemy Unit also has Objective Secured.

You'll note that at no point is there any mention of any models in my above two statements. Objective Secured is a Unit level rule.

If this helps...

Let's take a Space Marine Tactical Squad with an attached Captain. Does the Captain have the Objective Secured rule? No. Does the Tactical Sergeant have the Objective Secured rule? No. Do any of the Space Marine Tactical dudes have the Objective Secured rule? No. Does the Tactical Squad Unit as a whole have the Objective Secured rule? Yes.

 Falco wrote:
I dont think so. Read the rules on ICs and Special Rules.

Page 166 BRB for ICs and then Pg 122 for the OS special rule.

Yeah a unit's special rules are not conferred to the IC

mhalko1 wrote:

 Falco wrote:
I dont think so. Read the rules on ICs and Special Rules.

Page 166 BRB for ICs and then Pg 122 for the OS special rule.

Yeah a unit's special rules are not conferred to the IC

The Unit's special rule (OS) doesn't confer to the IC or any other model in the Unit. It's retained by the Unit.

Johnny Marineman doesn't have OS. Johnny Marineman's Tactical Squad has OS.

The IC does not need to have OS. Range is measured from the unit, the IC is part of the unit, if the unit is 3" away from the objective that unit is said to control it.

So if an IC is part of a unit that has OS, and the IC is 3" away from the objective then the unit NOT the IC controls the objective. Therefore OS is in effect.