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"All enemy models within 6'' of one or more models with this special rule subtract 1 from their Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Initiative, And Leadership."
-White Dwarf Neurostatic Aura rules

"Overwatch cannot cause Morale checks or Pinning tests. Any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots (pg 32)."
-BRB Pg. 45

"If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not shoot, as explained on page 9)."
-BRB Pg. 32

Likely you've figured out where I'm going with this. If Sicarian Infiltrators declare a charge on a unit wholly within 6'', is that unit capable of firing overwatch? Why / why not?

I'm inclined to say no, as Snap Shots overrides all modifiers to BS values in any example I've seen so far.

Edit: I'll make it clearer, I mean no as in "no, they aren't affected by the Skitarii rules", not "no, they can't fire Overwatch".

Snap shots can not be modified unless it specifically says it does so (such as Marker Lights saying they can modify Snap Shots)

So in this case the snap shots would still be BS1

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm inclined to say no, as Snap Shots overrides all modifiers to BS values in any example I've seen so far.

Edit: I'll make it clearer, I mean no as in "no, they aren't affected by the Skitarii rules".

I would say they ARE affected by the Skitarii rule. It just doesn't do anything practical in an Overwatch scenario as you're dealing with two modifiers. You have the Skitarii "subtract 1" and the Overwatch "set to 1". Reading the multiple modifiers section, we know that we do any "set to x" type modifiers last. So, if I'm charging some Marines, the Skitarii rule lowers their BS from 4 to 3 and THEN the Overwatch rules sets their BS to 1. They're still able to shoot.

The Aura reduces the model's BS.... And then they fire Overwatch at BS1.

Yes they could overwatch unless their BS was already 1 due to psychic powers or such. The reason is in the multiple modifiers section so it would play out as BS 4 then all +/- which would go down to 3 then set values to 1. If they were bs 1 before overwatch then is would play out like BS 1 all +/- to 0 then as the snap shots rule says it has a BS of 0 so it may not shoot.

Understood. Took a look at the Multiple Modifiers and yep, reduce by 1 then set to 1. Damn shame. Thanks all!

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Yes they could overwatch unless their BS was already 1 due to psychic powers or such. The reason is in the multiple modifiers section so it would play out as BS 4 then all +/- which would go down to 3 then set values to 1. If they were bs 1 before overwatch then is would play out like BS 1 all +/- to 0 then as the snap shots rule says it has a BS of 0 so it may not shoot.

Nope. Regardless of the model's BS, they shoot at BS1.

 insaniak wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Yes they could overwatch unless their BS was already 1 due to psychic powers or such. The reason is in the multiple modifiers section so it would play out as BS 4 then all +/- which would go down to 3 then set values to 1. If they were bs 1 before overwatch then is would play out like BS 1 all +/- to 0 then as the snap shots rule says it has a BS of 0 so it may not shoot.

Nope. Regardless of the model's BS, they shoot at BS1.

Reduce from 1 to 0 and then set to 1. Overwatch will always be 1 unless you have some special rule allowing it to be more (Cognis, for example).

 insaniak wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Yes they could overwatch unless their BS was already 1 due to psychic powers or such. The reason is in the multiple modifiers section so it would play out as BS 4 then all +/- which would go down to 3 then set values to 1. If they were bs 1 before overwatch then is would play out like BS 1 all +/- to 0 then as the snap shots rule says it has a BS of 0 so it may not shoot.

Nope. Regardless of the model's BS, they shoot at BS1.

Unless their BS is 0 as stated in the snap shot rule. The only way I can think of this happening is Nids Paroxysm and these Sicarian's.

Edit: "If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots, unless it has a Ballistic Skill of 0 (in which case it may not shoot, as explained on page 9)."
-BRB Pg. 32

Emphasis added, I could see an argument made that as the rule doesn't say it affects snap shots then it wouldn't get reduced, but I see it as before they even get to snap shoot if they are BS 1 they would get reduced to 0 and thus not be able to fire at all.

@ Kriswall: I agree that overwatch will always be at BS 1 unless you have rules telling you otherwise, but I don't think they would be able to fire overwatch at all.

 Kriswall wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Yes they could overwatch unless their BS was already 1 due to psychic powers or such. The reason is in the multiple modifiers section so it would play out as BS 4 then all +/- which would go down to 3 then set values to 1. If they were bs 1 before overwatch then is would play out like BS 1 all +/- to 0 then as the snap shots rule says it has a BS of 0 so it may not shoot.

Nope. Regardless of the model's BS, they shoot at BS1.

Reduce from 1 to 0 and then set to 1. Overwatch will always be 1 unless you have some special rule allowing it to be more (Cognis, for example).

Nope, if you do manage to reduce their ballistic skill to 0 overall then no, it will not set to 1 for overwatch. Yes, under normal circumstances it's multipliers, then +/-, then set values. However, as the rules say, overwatch always sets BS to 1 unless that model is already BS is 0. Meaning that if you get their BS all the way down to 0, like hitting them with a mind worm and then getting the Sicarian within 6", they're already at 0 and the rule to set them to 1 no longer applies.

Are there even any models with BS1 in the game?

but yes set modifiers go last, so -1 does not matter unless it goes to 0 because it will be set to 1 as the final modifier.

But the question is are they at 0? Sicaran allows it, but most others specify they cap at 1.

For example, an Ork unit is the target of Paroxysm and is in range of Sicaran Infiltrators. This means we have a BS of 2 -1 -d3. Normally this would be 0 (which Sicaran allows), however, Paroxysm has a cap of 1. If you reduce to 0, you are breaking the Malediction rules.

Insaniak is correct, the actual score is meaningless.

Many seem to have this idea that Snap Shots are simply 'set Ballistic Score to 1' but the actual interaction with other Rules is far more complicated then that. Snap Shot doesn't actually change the Ballistic Score at all, set or otherwise, because it simply 'counts as' a 1 for the purpose of resolving the shot. You can have other Set modifiers, apply them to the equation last and still have to count the score as 1 to obey the Snap Shot Rule. This can only be over-written by modifiers which specify that they are allowed to change the count as value as well.

Does this state that it can modify Overwatch is all you need to ask?

One thing to also keep in mind: Count as 1 Unless already 0
There are ways to have a score of 0 prior to Over-watch, this clause would prevent us from using the 'count as 1' to suddenly be able to fire with Models that previously could not.

 Happyjew wrote:
But the question is are they at 0? Sicaran allows it, but most others specify they cap at 1.

For example, an Ork unit is the target of Paroxysm and is in range of Sicaran Infiltrators. This means we have a BS of 2 -1 -d3. Normally this would be 0 (which Sicaran allows), however, Paroxysm has a cap of 1. If you reduce to 0, you are breaking the Malediction rules.

I see your point because the sicaran's would be in the 6 inch range before any psychic stuff as movement is first, so you could argue that it the Sicaran's would come first. But as it is "my" turn I can decide the sequencing of the negative modifiers. But there are other options now that bobbito said mind worm, I remembered Eldar's Mind War which sets the BS and WS to 1 then the Sicaran's ability to reduce it to 0, with the same sequencing issue.

 Happyjew wrote:
But the question is are they at 0? Sicaran allows it, but most others specify they cap at 1.

For example, an Ork unit is the target of Paroxysm and is in range of Sicaran Infiltrators. This means we have a BS of 2 -1 -d3. Normally this would be 0 (which Sicaran allows), however, Paroxysm has a cap of 1. If you reduce to 0, you are breaking the Malediction rules.

I was thinking of mind worm, which lasts the duration of the game. But then I have this scenario... Enemy has BS of 3. Sicarian is within range, so it's 2 now. Hit with mind worm, model takes -3 to a minimum of 1.

So would I say he's at 1, or 0? Mind worm lasts the duration of the game until the model is killed.

If the mind worm happened and then the Sicarians moved in, it'd reduce it to 0, so why wouldn't we say that it's 0 if the Sicarians are already in that 6" range when mind worm is originally cast?

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
But the question is are they at 0? Sicaran allows it, but most others specify they cap at 1.

For example, an Ork unit is the target of Paroxysm and is in range of Sicaran Infiltrators. This means we have a BS of 2 -1 -d3. Normally this would be 0 (which Sicaran allows), however, Paroxysm has a cap of 1. If you reduce to 0, you are breaking the Malediction rules.

I see your point because the sicaran's would be in the 6 inch range before any psychic stuff as movement is first, so you could argue that it the Sicaran's would come first. But as it is "my" turn I can decide the sequencing of the negative modifiers. But there are other options now that bobbito said mind worm, I remembered Eldar's Mind War which sets the BS and WS to 1 then the Sicaran's ability to reduce it to 0, with the same sequencing issue.

Modifiers are applied simultaneously because those modifiers are continuously in effect. The order they are done in has no effect. So with Mind War it is a fixed modifier so will alway set it to WS/BS 1 regardless of if another modifier shows up later.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
But the question is are they at 0? Sicaran allows it, but most others specify they cap at 1.

For example, an Ork unit is the target of Paroxysm and is in range of Sicaran Infiltrators. This means we have a BS of 2 -1 -d3. Normally this would be 0 (which Sicaran allows), however, Paroxysm has a cap of 1. If you reduce to 0, you are breaking the Malediction rules.

I see your point because the sicaran's would be in the 6 inch range before any psychic stuff as movement is first, so you could argue that it the Sicaran's would come first. But as it is "my" turn I can decide the sequencing of the negative modifiers. But there are other options now that bobbito said mind worm, I remembered Eldar's Mind War which sets the BS and WS to 1 then the Sicaran's ability to reduce it to 0, with the same sequencing issue.

Modifiers are applied simultaneously because those modifiers are continuously in effect. The order they are done in has no effect. So with Mind War it is a fixed modifier so will alway set it to WS/BS 1 regardless of if another modifier shows up later.

Your right about Mind War, and I also agree with the modifiers being applied simultaneously and the order having no effect. I was just posing a solution to what Happyjew posted.

A second Set Modifier would generally be able to do it, with humorous results as it goes up and down depending on which player's turn it is.