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Myself and a friend are currently testing a number of different lists and we are finding Flyrant Spam hard to beat. What TAC lists do you think would give the following a hard time?
Other flyers really, or weight of shots. It also works to have very resilient units too as they need to switch flying modes to assault which leaves them vunerable.
Farseer Will wrote: Other flyers really, or weight of shots. It also works to have very resilient units too as they need to switch flying modes to assault which leaves them vunerable.
We've tried other flyers, but it takes (for example) 4-5 storm talons to bring down a Flyrant with FnP (which they often have) and a Flyrant can down a Storm talon in a single volley reliably. Spaaace Puppy planes are a possibility, but we haven't found a list that uses those, can take the flyrants an can still stand up to Wave Serpent spam. Any better ideas?
Volume of shots we tried, using venom spam. Can't kill them quickly enough. Do you have another volume suggestion that might do better?
What sort of units would you suggest for getting them to land voluntarily? I can't think of anything that will make them want to assault.
Captyn_Bob wrote: I struggle with countering flyrant spam conceptually..
A horde would prevent thier movement, perhaps forcing them to ground, but then they can just rush you
Maybe, will give it a shot. Its nto as easy as with planes though as they only have to move 12" to stay airborne. Hordes are also vulnerable to the pie plates brought by the not tyrants.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/09 09:57:43
Sky rays are probably as close as you get to a hard counter. Them and tau broadsides with some markerlight support are probably the best bet for actually killing the things.
Three sky rays would be a start anyway. At the very least you'd force him to deal with them as each one could quite possibly down a flyrant a turn.
If proxying is allowed, or you have access to tau, try something like this?
Tau CAD
Fireblade 60pts
Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts
Raider Gunboats with Splinter Racks are quite reliable at forcing those armour saves. This requires a lot of manoeuvring but is possible. 4x such Raiders are the core of my army. Worth noting that a Flyrant won't reliably destroy a Jinking Raider with NS with just one volley.
I also bring 1 or 2 Razorwing Jetfighters with DLs and Necrotoxin Missiles. They're not optimised against the Flyrants themselves but DLs are likely to at least force the opponent to Jink. Snap-shotting Flyrants aren't nearly as dangerous as normal and can't use their blasted Egrub templates.
Eldar allies are worthwhile. A Wraithknight won't be killed by a single volley even when performed by all 4 Flyrants (lol) simultaneously. And a Crimson Hunter Exarch does unspeakable things to the flying buggers.
Drukhari - 4.7k
Space Marines - 3.1k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Harlequins - 0.9k
Sadly that army would be illegal in the rules pack we are using. 2 source maximum. Primary can be any detahcment except Allied, Secondary can only be Allied detachment or formation.
Not your fault, I didn't express that up front, apologies.
koooaei wrote: Treat them as inevitable evil and play missions. Like heldrakes.
They are far more versatile than helldrakes, I'm not necessarily interested in killing them so much as in winning, so we always play the mission. Doesn't seem to work as the flyrants just take out whatever you are going to use for your objective grabbing/holding.
Got a suggestion for something that can play the mission and win against the above?
We are playing Caledonian style missions mainly if that's any help in understanding the game we are playing.
Well, Flyrants are hard to take down and ignoring them is probably also not an option.
Necrons have ways to deal with them, especially if you run a decurion detachment.
Warriors and Immortal units never die practically and once a Flyrant is downed,
Wraiths can take them on very quickly.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Hmmm... I think it can still be done! I like a list building challenge anyway. This loses one sky ray and a unit of broadsides for a HBC riptide with skyfire (which will make a real mess of flyrants). It also has enough points to gain a bastion to keep the broadsides safe behing AV14.
Tau CAD
Fireblade 60pts
Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster 57pts
12 FWs 108pts 12 FWs 108pts Kroot with hound and sniper ammo 75pts Kroot with hound and sniper ammo 75pts
3 Broadsides with HYMPs and EWOs 210pts (in bastion) Sky ray with blacksun 116pts Sky ray with blacksun 116pts
Bastion 75pts
Farsight Enclaves Allied Detachment
Fireblade 60pts Riptide with HBC, ECPA, VT, EWO 235pts 3-suit crisis team, all with TL Fusion blasters + BK 129pts Crisis suit with Fusion blaster + TL fusion blaster + BK 58pts Sky Ray 116pts
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/09 13:49:43
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
Well have you seen the rules for the Onager Dunecrawler's Icarus Array? A squad of two would be cheap, tough to kill, and have enough uses as anti-skimmer and even a clutch melee tarpit that I'd consider them not a liability against hardly any army.
Sure, they'll never kill anything in melee, but a model with 2 attacks and a powerfist is still only causing .4 HP a turn to the thing.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
The issue with dealing with Flyrant spam is you cannot bring a TAC list for the most part, possibly decurion or another flyrant spam. It's a list that is possibly worse than WS spam.
HQ:
1 Autarch, 135 pts. (Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mantle of the Laughing God)
Troops:
5x Windrider Jetbikes, 85 pts.
Heavy Support:
1 Wraithknight, 240 pts.
Total: 1850/1850 pts.
I already know that this list can outclass a Tyranids list with 2 Flyrants. I would likely be able to put up a good fight against 3, but the thought of facing 4 Flyrants is scary.
Drukhari - 4.7k
Space Marines - 3.1k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Harlequins - 0.9k
OK did a bunch of practices at the weekend. The tau, surprisingly, folded like a wet paper bag, only managing a single Flyrant kill before being so far on the back foot as to be unrecoverable (their leadership seemed to be an issue as they got pinned from horror, allowing Flyrants to land and assault in conjunction with other units).
Tyranid player switched the Exocrines fro Zoes in a pod, which cut a skyray in half and ended up tarpitting broadsides.
Will be replaying this game as I think the Tau could do better with a little more care.
The Dark Eldar, sadly, were mauled by electroshock grubs, str5 AP5 haywire flamers hurt warriors in raiders badly. Wraithknight got eaten by the Toxicrine. Widnriders scored a fair few points though in the maelstrom part of the mission. Think this one is not good enough to cut it.
Decurion was interesting, first game went to the indestructible necrons, second game the Hive Fleet adapted, landing the flyrants and using paroxysm to force units to shoot on poor ballistic skill. Lost a flyrant on the ground, but then assaulted and rand down the big necron warrior squads in assault. Wraith counter assault was handy, but not enough as the Spider got eaten by the Toxicrine (that thing is a pain in the ass), before it got kille dby Ignores cover str5 bikers. Very close game though and the Nids only just won, will definitely be trying the Decurion again.
Onagers look like a cool addition working out what to do with the ad mech in terms of an actual army now. Maybe allying with Space Marines, not sure.
Msu marines have no real fear of flyrants for objective missions. Drop poded tacticals combat squading would require three flyrants to reliably take down or the objective is theirs.
When I run Harlequin, I run several free roaming death jesters in addition to a path of heroes formation. that gives me 4x60 point one model units that he needs to drop in order to claim objectives
Very interesting, thanks for posting! Surprised the tau did so badly though, shame...
Tbh I suspect necrons may be the best competetive choice against pretty much anything these days if you can run them. If I did necrons I'd probably go for a decurion 3 cannoptek harvests and some decent sized tomb blade squads. The flyrants just shouldn't be able to do enough to hurt units that tough!
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
Stalkers?
I run one in my TAC IF list. Every opponent has a flier or skimmers, and at a pinch it puts out four twin-linked snapshots against ground targets. Cheap as chips.
Stormtalons are cheap and effective too, and multi-role
Sadly that army would be illegal in the rules pack we are using. 2 source maximum. Primary can be any detahcment except Allied, Secondary can only be Allied detachment or formation.
Allied detachment has to be a different faction from the primary, so you'd want a formation, not a 2nd detachment.
MSU spam should work.
Real Space Raiders Formation and CAD.
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
