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225 for a LoW that doesn't even get an invul save. With today's levels of AP1 and AP2 ghaz rarely gets any kind of save unless you throw a Painboy in his unit.

I did the math and a REGULAR space marine Captain with shield eternal and a Powerfist costs 75pts less and has a 3++ with 1 fewer attacks and 1 fewer wounds. Furthermore, the space marine captain is essentially fearless (ATSKNF)

Im just curious does anyone even run Ghaz in their armies anymore? What are opposing armies views of Ghaz? and what do you think would make ghaz worth taking for 225pts?

The idea is to hide him in a big squad and when close (Like the second turn for orks in trukks...) You call the waaaghhh he charges into a tough unit such as their warlord and he gets his 2+ invun save making him extrmly hard to kill in that turn.
But other than that he isn't all that good and I wouldn't take him.

hes great for 1 turn in other words, his 2++ makes him a tank with 4 wounds. But after that 1 turn he doesn't even get an invul save and dies fairly quickly. I had a SM player beat Ghaz with a captain with the Shield eternal and a powerfist and I wanted to scream at the stupid ghaz model on the table. How can Ghaz be our biggest and best ork when ever chapter of SMs has 10 guys capable of whooping his arse?

Isn't Ghaz fearless?

If so, he should be.

I am hoping that the Orks get that super-warlord from the Great Crusade to play with in HH games. You know, the guy who almost crushed the Emperor, and who was impressive even to Horus.

Sonnuvaswineherd made Ghaz look like a grot!

Ghaz is most certainly not fearless, nor does he inspire fear, and his LD is only 9. They literally made our best ork to be the biggest pushover HQ choice in the history of mankind.

He sucks because he was the first of his kind. The first infantry model moved to LOW status. And yes, in hindsight they screwed it up big time considering what else is an LOW or what other big codex bosses come equipped with in the latest releases.

They made the last codex and nerfed him and a lot of other orky things and they made DLS and other buffs for regular warbosses. They must have known or else they just didn't care.

Keep in mind that, according to GW, SM Chaplains are absolute power-houses and you almost never see AV14.

Either they don't give a flying feth about the rules, or their rule makers are willfully in the dark as to how people play and what they play against.

Morgan I said CAPTAIN, not chaplain. It just boggles the mind at the lack of give a damn that GW has sometimes for these things.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Morgan I said CAPTAIN, not chaplain. It just boggles the mind at the lack of give a damn that GW has sometimes for these things.

No, you misunderstood me, not the other way around.

Read a White Dwarf (or whatever it's called now). In a fairly recent one they, whilst talking about "powerful unit combinations and exciting possibilities", mentioned how SM Chaplains were absolute power houses and therefor very common in a typical SM list.

The point is that the people who design the rules are either willfully ignorant, flat-out malicious, or living on a completely different planet.

so what does that have to do with my topic and me pointing out that SM Captains are better then the orks LoW?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
They made the last codex and nerfed him and a lot of other orky things and they made DLS and other buffs for regular warbosses. They must have known or else they just didn't care.

 morganfreeman wrote:


Read a White Dwarf (or whatever it's called now). In a fairly recent one they, whilst talking about "powerful unit combinations and exciting possibilities", mentioned how SM Chaplains were absolute power houses and therefor very common in a typical SM list.

The point is that the people who design the rules are either willfully ignorant, flat-out malicious, or living on a completely different planet.

Reading comprehension kids. Don't leave home without it.

Morgan you actually posted that as I was posting my reply. Please keep the insults and slurs to yourself or if you can't then don't post.


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And furthermore, your comments on Chaplains STILL doesn't apply on anything approaching the same scale as a 225pt LoW that is weaker then a buffed Space Marine Captain.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Morgan you actually posted that as I was posting my reply. Please keep the insults and slurs to yourself or if you can't then don't post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And furthermore, your comments on Chaplains STILL doesn't apply on anything approaching the same scale as a 225pt LoW that is weaker then a buffed Space Marine Captain.

What slur did he use, not trying to start a fight but I don't see any in his text

He's saying they are willfully ignorant of the rules and was using chaplains as a reason to agree with you. No need to be so hostile, man.

I guess I dont get it still then, probably because I dont play SM and don't care about Chaplains. :-P

As for the insult, i would say that saying things along the lines of "reading comprehension kids dont leave home without it" that would be an insult, maybe Im just tired though who knows.

Ghazghkull is just bad man, he would be so much better if Cybork gave an invul, or if he just had one because Prophet of Gork and Mork, it sucks. His WAAAAGH ability is cool and everything, because look, my meganobz can run then charge, and that's cool, but he's so many points, and uses the LoW slot up. I have no idea why, other then to have a character LoW in the codex.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
hes great for 1 turn in other words, his 2++ makes him a tank with 4 wounds. But after that 1 turn he doesn't even get an invul save and dies fairly quickly. I had a SM player beat Ghaz with a captain with the Shield eternal and a powerfist and I wanted to scream at the stupid ghaz model on the table. How can Ghaz be our biggest and best ork when ever chapter of SMs has 10 guys capable of whooping his arse?

Because Space Marines. They get whatever they want, and they have the best of everything. This has been common knowledge for awhile now.


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 Ghazkuul wrote:
Ghaz is most certainly not fearless, nor does he inspire fear, and his LD is only 9. They literally made our best ork to be the biggest pushover HQ choice in the history of mankind.

Are you familiar with Imotekh? He's a LoW. Yes, he has an invuln, but no EW and only 3 wounds. Also, no CC capability whatsoever. You're not the only one in this matter. All the SM LoWs though, oh, god forbid they don't run train on anything in CC and have less than 4 wounds and EW.

Hence many of the reasons I dislike IoM armies.

Edit: Imotekh also doesn't have Fearless or ATSKNF. So feel free to sweep him. Good day.

Except Eldar. And Necron. And maybe Tau. And Daemons...

And about Space Marines: did DA have best rules?) We can only wish for EW equipment for our HQ.

Ghazkull should run eizer in the blob of boys or in Battlewagon. This way he will come in CC with desired unit most certanly, and this one turn of tanking can seriously cripple opponent.

And Fearless is not allways good: how many times I wanted my DW knight to come out of combat with something like Morkonaught, wich they have no chane to hurt after using smite mode elsewhere)

 morganfreeman wrote:
Keep in mind that, according to GW, SM Chaplains are absolute power-houses and you almost never see AV14.

Either they don't give a flying feth about the rules, or their rule makers are willfully in the dark as to how people play and what they play against.

I think noting AV 14 isn't common is fair. you don't see a lotta land raiders and monoliths. so really only 1 army is using AV 14 in any quantities.

BrianDavion wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:
Keep in mind that, according to GW, SM Chaplains are absolute power-houses and you almost never see AV14.

Either they don't give a flying feth about the rules, or their rule makers are willfully in the dark as to how people play and what they play against.

I think noting AV 14 isn't common is fair. you don't see a lotta land raiders and monoliths. so really only 1 army is using AV 14 in any quantities.

Still not sure why. Serpent spam does nothing to 3 Monoliths being dropped on them.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I guess I dont get it still then, probably because I dont play SM and don't care about Chaplains. :-P

As for the insult, i would say that saying things along the lines of "reading comprehension kids dont leave home without it" that would be an insult, maybe Im just tired though who knows.

His comment about Chaplains was meant to illustrate how disconnected the rules writers are from reality. Ghazghkull sucks because GW does not understand their own rules or how those rules are used by the players. If you were to ask one of the writers they would probably say Ghazghkull is too good for his points, and then nerf him in the next codex. But ultimately they don't care much after you buy the model.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
hes great for 1 turn in other words, his 2++ makes him a tank with 4 wounds. But after that 1 turn he doesn't even get an invul save and dies fairly quickly. I had a SM player beat Ghaz with a captain with the Shield eternal and a powerfist and I wanted to scream at the stupid ghaz model on the table. How can Ghaz be our biggest and best ork when ever chapter of SMs has 10 guys capable of whooping his arse?

Because Space Marines. They get whatever they want, and they have the best of everything. This has been common knowledge for awhile now.

*snicker* right. as if.

Wait. You're serious? A Necron player thinking SM have it too well. Have you read your Matt Ward+1 codex that just came out?! In 5th you had top tier 'dex, in 6th (the brief moment that was 6th) Crons were good, and now you have the "break the good balance that was 7th ed" codex that can do everything and has answers for everything.

Wow. What's next? Rhinos are OP?!

 Lobukia wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
hes great for 1 turn in other words, his 2++ makes him a tank with 4 wounds. But after that 1 turn he doesn't even get an invul save and dies fairly quickly. I had a SM player beat Ghaz with a captain with the Shield eternal and a powerfist and I wanted to scream at the stupid ghaz model on the table. How can Ghaz be our biggest and best ork when ever chapter of SMs has 10 guys capable of whooping his arse?

Because Space Marines. They get whatever they want, and they have the best of everything. This has been common knowledge for awhile now.

*snicker* as if. ikr. Wait. You're serious? A Necron player thinking SM have it too well. Have you read your Matt Ward+1 codex that just came out?! In 5th you had top tier 'dex, in 6th (the brief moment that was 6th) Crons were good, and now you have the "break the good balance that was 7th ed" codex that can do everything and has answers for everything.

Wow. What's next? Rhinos are OP?!

"codex that can do everything and has answers for everything." I'm curious to know what you mean by that. We lack an abundance of AP2 or melta. In fact, we pretty much rely on 6s to kill vehicles (which isn't as reliable as you'd think), and mostly just hope Terminators fail saves when we shoot them. We also have little fearless or ability to ignore it (Space Marines auto-ignore Fear, Sweeping Advance, and Regrouping rules).

On top of that, Space Marines have Drop pods, Grav Cents, Smashgakker, the Shield Eternal, and through the wonders that is Ally rules (Gee, I'm not familiar with that, as a Cron player) you have access to any other book you want that is a SM codex, as well as Imperial Knights (which in themselves are unnecessary).

But I digress. I'm not arguing Necrons aren't OP, that is not the nature of this thread. I'm merely comparing Ghazkull to Imotekh, our LoW who is also very lackluster when compared to SM LoWs. But before pointing fingers, take a look at everything at your disposal as an IoM player. Then come back to me.

Meh, friends Tourney SM list tabled my casual/hard Necron list, I only killed 4 tactical marines out of desperation... Maybe if I went into the game with my tourney list, it would have been slightly different, but not too much


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But lets switch back to orks, mmkay?

 Jayden63 wrote:
He sucks because he was the first of his kind. The first infantry model moved to LOW status. And yes, in hindsight they screwed it up big time considering what else is an LOW or what other big codex bosses come equipped with in the latest releases.

This I think is the key of it.

They just moved him to the LoW slot without really making him worth taking that slot. He's not the only character to suffer from that however.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
He sucks because he was the first of his kind. The first infantry model moved to LOW status. And yes, in hindsight they screwed it up big time considering what else is an LOW or what other big codex bosses come equipped with in the latest releases.

This I think is the key of it.

They just moved him to the LoW slot without really making him worth taking that slot. He's not the only character to suffer from that however.

none of the LOWs presented to date have had signfcigent changes made though have they? maybe Dante as I hear he's pretty awesome nowadays, but the necron special character LOW isn't that impressive, and Dragio's a beast sure, but he always has been

Logan Grimnar had quite the overhaul when you look at the whole thing. The model itself is a whole different thread.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Logan Grimnar had quite the overhaul when you look at the whole thing. The model itself is a whole different thread.

true but they released a new mini of him with "super sled action!"

Is 9 meganobz and Ghaz multi assaulting out of a battlewagon for 3.5 more inches a thing?

No?

Okay maybe I got nothing.