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He's not half bad in a council. The squad is quite resilient and amazingly choppy. If you can mitigate their speed problem - like using an escape hatch or a wagon hidden beneath a VSG, they're pretty frightening for the opponent. Yep, it's a hell ton of points in one squad but that's the closest orks can get to a deathstar. All it really lacks is it's own mobility.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I guess I dont get it still then, probably because I dont play SM and don't care about Chaplains. :-P

As for the insult, i would say that saying things along the lines of "reading comprehension kids dont leave home without it" that would be an insult, maybe Im just tired though who knows.

I'mma break this down for you, since words are hard apparently.

1.) You said that a Captain *Not Chaplain* can best Ghazzy in close combat with a Shield Eternal and a Powerfist. A true statement for sure, since Ghazzy doesn't have any invulnerable save once he burns his 2+ invul save ability. Then you went on to state in a subsequent post that the rules writers for GW "Must have known or else they just don't care" in reference to how poor Ghaz is as a Lord of War.

2.) Morganfreeman agreed with you, and your statement, citing that the GW rules writers believe, and printed this belief in a recent White Dwarf, that Space Marine Chaplains *Not Captains* are powerhouse units and appear in many Space Marine armies. Morganfreeman went on to state "the people who design the rules are either willfully ignorant, flat-out malicious, or living on a completely different planet" Using his citation of this Chaplain *not Captain* statement from the GW rules writers to illustrate that point.

3.) You then, being confused, assumed he had mis-read your statement about Captains *Not Chaplains* being as powerful/effective as Ghaz and sought to correct him.

4. Morganfreeman then correctly stated that he had indeed NOT misread your statement but was offering an AGREEMENT to you by using a similar, but different example of how the GW rules writers suffer what I would consider a somewhat vast disassociation with how people actually build lists. Stating that Chaplains *Not Captains* are not very good HQ choices but the GW rules writers think they're the bees knees and a "powerhouse" of an HQ choice. (They're decent but nowhere near as good as a Librarian or Captain).

5.) You then attempted to all but berate Morganfreeman, asking him what that has to do with your statement, when in-fact he was agreeing with you and lending credence to your statement that Captains *Not Chaplains* are better choices than the Orks LoW choice and cost less/don't take up a LoW slot to boot. Morganfreeman just used an alternative example to illustrate the point you were making.

6.) Morganfreeman made a rather funny point that reading comprehension is indeed a very valuable skill when dealing with the written word and that you should probably try reading what he said again, since he was trying to be nice and point out your misunderstanding by offering a light-hearted comment about making sure you understand before you post.

7.) In my opinion, you owe Morganfreeman an apology for your statements in this thread, as he was genuinely agreeing with you, and yet because of your inability to follow his statements, have hit him with an accusation of insult when there was none.

8.) Lastly, I like oreo Milkshakes. They're delicious.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

9.) Red__Thirst tried to explain stuff to you.

you owe Morganfreeman an apology for your statements in this thread, as he was genuinely agreeing with you, and yet because of your inability to follow his statements, have hit him with an accusation of insult when there was none.

Agreed. Why do we see this biting the hand syndrome so much? Not a pleasant trend.

10) If you imagine Morgan Freeman's voice in your mind while reading Red__Thirst's post it is quite amusing

11.)

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
10) If you imagine Morgan Freeman's voice in your mind while reading Red__Thirst's post it is quite amusing

While not as cool as Mr. Morgan Freeman, I do also hail from Mississippi. So I guess that kinda puts us in the same boat.

And yea, I wish I sounded as cool as Mr. Freeman while speaking.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Ghazgkhull isn't a world-destroying combat god like - say - Abbadon.

The problem isn't a marine captain - it's the Shield Eternal; one of the most annoyingly overpowered (and hence inevitably spammed) relics in the game. Take that away and I'd bet on the Grand Warlord of the Goff Clan versus any unnamed marine character.

Ultimately, he's still not bad. Being able to take proper advantage of Waaaggh! is worth a fair amount, and his damage potential is faintly ridiculous. Strength 10 is becoming a big deal recently due to toughness 5 targets that need instant killing or essentially ignore you, or for antitank potential (he can dismantle a knight fairly efficiently provided the knight can't pick him out).

He's not that powerful for a Lord of War, but then most of the Lord of War characters aren't really that powerful - Draigo mostly sees table time because of his garuanteed Gate of Infinity power, not his fighting power.

Because he doesnt have his "bana wava" anymore
I do
And the 2nd edition ork codex

locarno24 wrote:
The problem isn't a marine captain - it's the Shield Eternal; one of the most annoyingly overpowered (and hence inevitably spammed) relics in the game. Take that away and I'd bet on the Grand Warlord of the Goff Clan versus any unnamed marine character.

This.

Also, I'd like to point out not only Immotek the Storm Pimp (as has already been highlighted), but also everyones favourite overcompensating Flesh Tearer, Gabriel Seth. T4 with no eternal warrior, a 3+ save and an AP4 weapon. At least ghazghul (and Immotek) can't be instantly killed by a missile launcher. Or a battle cannon. Or a melta shot. Or a lascannon. Or a fusion gun. Or a pulse laser. Or an overcharged ion accelerator shot. Or a hades autocannon. Or an ectoplasma blast. Or a powerfist. Or a thermal cannon. Or a bright lance. Or a dark lance. Or... You get the point.

 Drasius wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
The problem isn't a marine captain - it's the Shield Eternal; one of the most annoyingly overpowered (and hence inevitably spammed) relics in the game. Take that away and I'd bet on the Grand Warlord of the Goff Clan versus any unnamed marine character.

This.

Also, I'd like to point out not only Immotek the Storm Pimp (as has already been highlighted), but also everyones favourite overcompensating Flesh Tearer, Gabriel Seth. T4 with no eternal warrior, a 3+ save and an AP4 weapon. At least ghazghul (and Immotek) can't be instantly killed by a missile launcher. Or a battle cannon. Or a melta shot. Or a lascannon. Or a fusion gun. Or a pulse laser. Or an overcharged ion accelerator shot. Or a hades autocannon. Or an ectoplasma blast. Or a powerfist. Or a thermal cannon. Or a bright lance. Or a dark lance. Or... You get the point.

Did seth get a nerf from his previous incarnation?

Ghaz, when released with this new codex, was actually NERFED and then moved into the LoW slots.

Ghaz lost his +2 attack when assaulting, he lost his 5++ and they kept him at the SAME point cost. so he loses attacks and goes from a 5++ to a 6+FNP. Ohh and he doesn't get his 6+ FNP against S10 weapons since he is only T5, even though he is the biggest baddest ork Since the emperor walked the galaxy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohh and Red Thirst, Thank you for spelling it out in such a manner.

And I will say this, I don't owe Morgan an apology, why? because in my opinion the Chaplain is a great HQ choice. In my local META the SM players drop him into a death star, and off they go. Dante, with the Sanguinator and a chaplain with a vanguard assault squad and you have a very formidable death star. Even just a regular assault squad with a chaplain in it, the Zealot rule REALLY helps them out significantly because that 1st round of combat is always the telling round.

So to conclude, Morgan and I disagree on that issue and because he didn't know my opinion on chaplains and vice versa he decided to conclude that I had bad reading comprehension, which is in fact an insult so therefore as I stated, I will not apologize.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Ghaz is most certainly not fearless, nor does he inspire fear, and his LD is only 9. They literally made our best ork to be the biggest pushover HQ choice in the history of mankind.

That is extremely unfortunate. Gaz should be one of the most feared HQ's in the game. He should have MC stats IMO - but still be an infantry so he can join units.

I agree xeno, sadly he has almost the same stat line as a regular warboss The difference is he has +1 WS, +1 Wounds and +1 attacks. Not much difference for an ork supposedly better then everyone else.

 krodarklorr wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:
Keep in mind that, according to GW, SM Chaplains are absolute power-houses and you almost never see AV14.

Either they don't give a flying feth about the rules, or their rule makers are willfully in the dark as to how people play and what they play against.

I think noting AV 14 isn't common is fair. you don't see a lotta land raiders and monoliths. so really only 1 army is using AV 14 in any quantities.

Still not sure why. Serpent spam does nothing to 3 Monoliths being dropped on them.

Cause melta guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I agree xeno, sadly he has almost the same stat line as a regular warboss The difference is he has +1 WS, +1 Wounds and +1 attacks. Not much difference for an ork supposedly better then everyone else.

I'd like to see thracka something like

ws6 bs2 str6 t5 w4 a5 i4 ld10 sv 2+/4+
His powerclaw should be concussive and shouldnt he have some really big shoota? And fearless. And eternal warrior.

at 225 and a LOW I think that would be pretty fair price. Maybe up him to 250.

Logan Grimnar also took a pretty huge nerf, losing his ability to pass on abilities to other units and stayed the same price. Then got the dumbest model in the world the sled. Really the only LOW, non super heavies are Draigo and maybe Dante, not played new blangels yet.

oz of the north wrote:
Logan Grimnar also took a pretty huge nerf, losing his ability to pass on abilities to other units and stayed the same price. Then got the dumbest model in the world the sled. Really the only LOW, non super heavies are Draigo and maybe Dante, not played new blangels yet.

Draigo and Dante are confirmed BA's too.

locarno24 wrote:


He's not that powerful for a Lord of War, but then most of the Lord of War characters aren't really that powerful - Draigo mostly sees table time because of his garuanteed Gate of Infinity power, not his fighting power.

But Draigo is still brutal. Guy is essentially S9 AP2 at all times AND with force because of his psychic powers, isn't he? Hard to argue with that. It's pretty killy against anything not AV14. And he's still EW with weapon skill: enough to always hit on 4+ at the worst, with a 4++ invuln.

Also someone brought up Gabriel Seth: Thing is, he's only 155 points. People bring up Dante. He's only 220 points for how killy he is. If you want to make your own scratch build guys that even get close to either's fighting prowess at least in-codex, you're spending 170+ points.

Ghazkul isn't much better than a regular warboss, but is double the cost. He's not even as good as the Warboss that comes in Stormclaw starter box, what with his Shred power klaw and all. And that dude is only 130 points.

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I guess I dont get it still then, probably because I dont play SM and don't care about Chaplains. :-P

As for the insult, i would say that saying things along the lines of "reading comprehension kids dont leave home without it" that would be an insult, maybe Im just tired though who knows.

I'mma break this down for you, since words are hard apparently.

1.) You said that a Captain *Not Chaplain* can best Ghazzy in close combat with a Shield Eternal and a Powerfist. A true statement for sure, since Ghazzy doesn't have any invulnerable save once he burns his 2+ invul save ability. Then you went on to state in a subsequent post that the rules writers for GW "Must have known or else they just don't care" in reference to how poor Ghaz is as a Lord of War.

2.) Morganfreeman agreed with you, and your statement, citing that the GW rules writers believe, and printed this belief in a recent White Dwarf, that Space Marine Chaplains *Not Captains* are powerhouse units and appear in many Space Marine armies. Morganfreeman went on to state "the people who design the rules are either willfully ignorant, flat-out malicious, or living on a completely different planet" Using his citation of this Chaplain *not Captain* statement from the GW rules writers to illustrate that point.

3.) You then, being confused, assumed he had mis-read your statement about Captains *Not Chaplains* being as powerful/effective as Ghaz and sought to correct him.

4. Morganfreeman then correctly stated that he had indeed NOT misread your statement but was offering an AGREEMENT to you by using a similar, but different example of how the GW rules writers suffer what I would consider a somewhat vast disassociation with how people actually build lists. Stating that Chaplains *Not Captains* are not very good HQ choices but the GW rules writers think they're the bees knees and a "powerhouse" of an HQ choice. (They're decent but nowhere near as good as a Librarian or Captain).

5.) You then attempted to all but berate Morganfreeman, asking him what that has to do with your statement, when in-fact he was agreeing with you and lending credence to your statement that Captains *Not Chaplains* are better choices than the Orks LoW choice and cost less/don't take up a LoW slot to boot. Morganfreeman just used an alternative example to illustrate the point you were making.

6.) Morganfreeman made a rather funny point that reading comprehension is indeed a very valuable skill when dealing with the written word and that you should probably try reading what he said again, since he was trying to be nice and point out your misunderstanding by offering a light-hearted comment about making sure you understand before you post.

7.) In my opinion, you owe Morganfreeman an apology for your statements in this thread, as he was genuinely agreeing with you, and yet because of your inability to follow his statements, have hit him with an accusation of insult when there was none.

8.) Lastly, I like oreo Milkshakes. They're delicious.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Is any of this necessary? a bullet point breakdown is a further insult to the OP. Freeman threw the first punch with the "reading comprehension kids" until then the misunderstanding could have been handled without insults an civilized. Sorry...after someone accuses me of not being able to read - being civil is a whole lot harder. I know you are probably trying to calm things down but it's likely to have the opposite effect.

Giving Ghaz +1 strength isnt useful, since he is already S5 and his PK doubles his S to a maximum of 10 he is already maxed out without the upgrade. I think maybe having his PK swing at init would be nice. BTW Ghaz is only init 4. He also needs a good buff to give to his fellow orks, his personal Waaagh is nice, but yet again not very useful in most circumstances. I myself own 3 Meganobz and am not to fond of them honestly. So allowing my MegaNobz to run and assault isn't anything to be bragging about. This was a clear attempt by GW to sell more Mega nobz models (they just came out with the new Kit) and by making Ghaz fit into Mega nobz almost inclusively you have made him that much less useful.

My Ghaz was actually a present for my wife (her request) and I painted it up for her and it sits proudly on her desk at work and hasn't seen a game for six months if not longer.

I use Ghaz because A) He's basically a free HQ Choice. I can take precious, precious painboyz and get 2 instead of 1 with Ghazzy. B) he buffs up my meganobz squad and I've never seen anything survive a turn of that assault. I run 9 Meganobz and ghazzy in a wagon, and god do I love seeing the Shield Eternal on the other end of that assault, because what it means is turn 1, every one of those marines dies and all of smashfether's attacks are gonna bounce off Ghazzy's invuln, then on the enemy turn he's stuck in combat and the challenge is over, he can't hurt ghazzy anyway if I dont want him to, and he just dies to a dozen AP1 wounds leaving me able to charge again on the next turn.


It's like, yeah, I get it, he's not amazing, but none of the big beefed up characters in 40k are really that great on the tabletop. When was the last time you saw a Marneus Calgar on the table? How 'bout a Lelith Hesperax survive overwatch to get into close combat? Since you can pick and choose the wargear and optimize the generic characters 99% of the time they're just straight up better than the special ones.


So yeah would I rather have a Mega Armor boss with da big boss pole and lucky stikk running with my boyz? Probably yeah. But i don't have a slot for him, so Ghazghkull hits the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Giving Ghaz +1 strength isnt useful, since he is already S5 and his PK doubles his S to a maximum of 10 he is already maxed out without the upgrade. I think maybe having his PK swing at init would be nice. BTW Ghaz is only init 4. He also needs a good buff to give to his fellow orks, his personal Waaagh is nice, but yet again not very useful in most circumstances. I myself own 3 Meganobz and am not to fond of them honestly. So allowing my MegaNobz to run and assault isn't anything to be bragging about. This was a clear attempt by GW to sell more Mega nobz models (they just came out with the new Kit) and by making Ghaz fit into Mega nobz almost inclusively you have made him that much less useful.

My Ghaz was actually a present for my wife (her request) and I painted it up for her and it sits proudly on her desk at work and hasn't seen a game for six months if not longer.

Well yeah dude, of course it was an attempt to sell the new kit. Why do you think the new mek guns just "happened" to be super amazing and Lootas and Burnas both got weaker in comparison to the shiny new Flash Gitz models?

He's pretty freaking good with meganobz though, are you running him with just boyz? because he really does need a unit that's just gonna blow through whatever it comes up against so Ghazgkhull can not have to fight anything particularly scary the second turn of his assault. That first turn though, he will dole out a whole lot of hurt.


The problem is really his cost. It's just too much for an infantry scale model. 2++, FNP on 6, Str10 AP1 with EW...there's not much more you can buff somethings stats before it just NEEDS to be a monstrous creature or it won't work.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:
Keep in mind that, according to GW, SM Chaplains are absolute power-houses and you almost never see AV14.

Either they don't give a flying feth about the rules, or their rule makers are willfully in the dark as to how people play and what they play against.

I think noting AV 14 isn't common is fair. you don't see a lotta land raiders and monoliths. so really only 1 army is using AV 14 in any quantities.

Still not sure why. Serpent spam does nothing to 3 Monoliths being dropped on them.

Cause melta guns.
.

I mean, sure, but there are easy ways around that.

Uh...also, by the math Ghazzy should beat a SM captain with Shield Eternal and a Powerfist... It'll take him 3 rounds to do it and he'll take 2.5 wounds but even with no other upgrades on him that captain is only like 40 points less than Ghaz.

And if you take my Meganobz squad with him, in the first round his squad is gonna cause 15 AP1 wounds to anything Space Marine that captain's got with him. So unless Captain Crunch has more than 5 THSS termies rolling with him, he's dead by the bottom of round one.

I think the misunderstanding with regards to captains/chaplains has been covered sufficiently and we'll just move on please.

Thank you.

Some people can't have nice things, it seems.