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I was just going to order some new Citadel Brushes from the GW webstore and noticed a few are not for sale on the site any longer and have heard they were about to release some new ones. Has anyone heard anything more on this before I buy new brushes?

You can't ask questions in News and Rumours sorry mate.
I haven't heard anything on any rumour sites.

Whoops. Sorry. Can a Mod please delete this. I wasnt aware about not being able to ask questions about such things in the thread.

I wouldn't waste your money on GW brushes. Go on the Secret Weapon Miniature or Brokentoad website and grab some of theirs... much higher quality.. will last you way longer.. especially if you take care of them (brush cleaner and preserver), and much easier to paint with.

Or just go to your local art supply store and buy your brushes without paying extra for some game company's logo on the handle.

I would compare GW brushes to a no name artists brand. They will get you there and they can last you a good while if you take good care of them.

There are quite a few examples of people doing beautiful work with GW brushes. However, if you go for the no name artists brands you get pretty much the same think at a lower price. But honestly, they difference is not that big i real world terms.

I have chosen to use W&N S7, but then again I am an idiot with more money than brains. For me it has been a matter of wanting the best, but honestly I have a lot of cheaper brushes that works just as well for my skill level (example below)

I've heard of new brushes too, via FLGS manager

Noticed on the website that the Fine Detail Brushes are no longer available so there may be some truth to the rumor. Also, excellent work on those termies! Hope I can get that good one day. Ive looked all over for good high quality brushes but the only store we have here that sells stuff like that is hobby lobby and while they have winsor and newton brushes they didnt have any that I was looking for or needed. They had big water color and stuff for painting on canvas but none small enough for minis.

 honeybadger33 wrote:
Noticed on the website that the Fine Detail Brushes are no longer available so there may be some truth to the rumor. Also, excellent work on those termies! Hope I can get that good one day. Ive looked all over for good high quality brushes but the only store we have here that sells stuff like that is hobby lobby and while they have winsor and newton brushes they didnt have any that I was looking for or needed. They had big water color and stuff for painting on canvas but none small enough for minis.

Treat yourself and order a Scharff Series 3000 from Secret Weapon Miniatures. The quality is better than GW and it will last you a long time if you take care of it (clean it after every use with brush soap and store it with the tip protector on it).

From the Imperial Knights thread in News & Rumours:

The sharp-eyed will notice that the Artificer Brush looks like it's a Winsor Newton Series 7. It's certainly packaged in the same tube, and the price (15 euro!!) is about the same. Looks like a size 00, but hard to say from the pic.

What's with the gigantic filbert shade brush Does anyone really apply washes with such a huge brush? You'd drink up all your wash pot just like that, hehehe.

Scenery Medium brush: wouldn't a flat work better? That one looks like a makeup brush.

Angled base brushes: what do you think? I used to be a fan of angled brushes, but I use mostly straight flats now. I'm glad GW is promoting FLAT brushes though, for basecoat! OTOH, I wish those bristles were longer. On the drybrush and basecoat brushes, they look so short that it seems impossible not to get paint into the ferrule.

Drybrushes: is anyone else going to miss the old, round drybrushes? I think I will have to buy some more spares :X

Texture tool - I'm glad they sell this separately now. It's frankly the only useful tool that I didn't have in the kit (as I have more sculpting tools than I knew what to do with). Then again, a toothpick plastic floss thingy works too, and then you can throw it away.

Overall, it looks like an improvement on the old paintbrush line. It certainly feels more complete now.

Comparing prices on GW's website, 15 euros works out to be $19.25 US. Looking at the two local online retailers who carry W&N Series 7 Size 00 brushes both list it's normal retail price as $26.99 US.

 Ghaz wrote:
Comparing prices on GW's website, 15 euros works out to be $19.25 US. Looking at the two local online retailers who carry W&N Series 7 Size 00 brushes both list it's normal retail price as $26.99 US.

You're getting hosed on the W&N S7.

http://www.deserres.ca/en-ca/search/winsor-newton-series-7-paintbrush/WNSEVEN/

We pay $19.99 Canadian (which is about $16 USD) for a size 00, by an authorized W&N retailer that stocks them in a brick & mortar. On top of that, you can go in on 20% off days or with coupons, and they have a customer loyalty/discount points program. When they go on sale, I get W&N S7's 00 for about $12.50 each, and buy them 6 at a time (they ship to the retailer in a pouch with 3).

It isn't until a size 3 that we're looking at $27 USD (and that's a huge freakin' sable brush for miniatures -- I have one but almost never use it).

EDIT: I just remembered -- the US has an import ban on Kolinsky sable brushes. My fine arts shop (DeSerres) actually buys them directly from the UK, whereas it used to get them from the US. Maybe you are paying a surcharge for voodoo black magic to get it in? Perhaps through Canada? Bwahahaha

I said it's normal retail price, as in its MSRP. Neither of them sell it for that much. The chain store sells it for $16.19 US and the local store sells it for $20.25 US. For GW to sell a third party product, I wouldn't expect their prices to be competitive as they usually jack up the price to at least the equivalent of the MSRP

 Ghaz wrote:
I said it's normal retail price, as in its MSRP. Neither of them sell it for that much. The chain store sells it for $16.19 US and the local store sells it for $20.25 US. For GW to sell a third party product, I wouldn't expect their prices to be competitive as they usually jack up the price to at least the equivalent of the MSRP

Well, yeah, but the GW brush will sell for 15% - 25% off or MSRP too I mean, how many local hobby shops sell GW at full retail. So, if it will be around $15-$16-ish at most FLGS. I think that's a good price point for a premium 00 brush (assuming that's the size). I don't think GW could get away with much more, because people will just buy W&N or one of the other premium brushes, above $20. On the other hand, if the brush is the single one in #3, that does not look like a S7 00.

Also: looking at the photos of the other brushes, their price points, and the fact that GW likes to deal with UK companies, I'm going to take a stab at it and guess that the cheap non-gigantic base/layer/shade brushes are either Royal & Langnickel or the cheap W&N Cottmans.

http://www.royalbrushstore.com/c/brushes_by-series-name_zen-series-43_z43-zen-angular

I would actually be disappointed if this were so, because that would mean that the "affordable" brushes were no longer kolinsky sable. But perhaps I am wrong -- it's just that most of those brushes look like Golden Taklon synthetics (ewwwww). Also: I miss the colored handles. Fortunately, it's easy to dip the ends in a pot of paint

 Talys wrote:
I mean, how many local hobby shops sell GW at full retail.

The one a mile and a half away from my house that's been in business for over thirty years (they're about 2/3rds comics and 1/3rd various types of games).

Regardless, if the Artificer brush was a rebranded W&N Series 00 the GW MSRP would be closer to the Windsor & Newton MSRP and not almost $8 less.

 Ghaz wrote:

The one a mile and a half away from my house that's been in business for over thirty years (they're about 2/3rds comics and 1/3rd various types of games).

Awww... Sad Panda :( I feel bad for you, bud.

 Ghaz wrote:

Regardless, if the Artificer brush was a rebranded W&N Series 00 the GW MSRP would be closer to the Windsor & Newton MSRP and not almost $8 less.

I guess I must've gotten the old ones? Not sure. I just got my brushes from GW today that I ordered. The one's on the website haven't changed but yeah I do notice the fine detail temp out of stock along with a couple others. US doesn't get these ones? A chunk of these are kolinsky sable hair brushes.

Save yourself a lot of money and buy your brushes at an art supply store instead.

 Talys wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

The one a mile and a half away from my house that's been in business for over thirty years (they're about 2/3rds comics and 1/3rd various types of games).

Awww... Sad Panda :( I feel bad for you, bud.

If I was buying anything from Games Workshop I might actually care

This would be a really nice brush line if they made their brushes from Kolinsky Sable hair..

It'll be the same old story: adequate brushes at a massive mark up, an art store will give you the same quality for much less money.

If you don't quite feel like stretching to W & N, then Rosemary & co.'s series 33 line of kolinsky sable brushes is pretty easy on the wallet and not much of a step down from W & N.

To the OP...

1. GW's current brush line is fantastic and very well priced despite what others say. I highly recommend them.
I use GW's brushes and produce results better than most "professional" painters that swear by W&N, Da Vinci, etc.

2. Yes, they are redoing the entire brush range. We'll see these up for pre-order this Saturday.

I've picked up my copy of WD66, and here are the US/Canada prices

Small Base Brush - $5.75 / $7
Medium Base Brush - $7.5 / $9
Large Base Brush - $8.25 / $10
Extra Large Base Brush - $9.5 / $11
Medium Shade Brush - $6.75 / $8
Large Shade Brush - $11 / $13
Small Drybrush - $5.75 / $7
Medium Drybrush - $6.25 / $7.50
Large Drybrush - $8.75 / $10.50
Small Layer Brush - $6.5 / $7.75
Medium Layer Brush - $7 / $8.50
Artificer brush - $20 / $24
Medium Scenery Brush - $8.25 / $10
Large Scenery Brush - $9 / $10.75
Medium Texture Spreader - $8.25 / $10

Looking at the list -- and knowing that they'll be discounted 15%-25% at most FLGS -- I think the **prices** are pretty good. The standout expensive one is the Artificer, though I still think it's a W&N, which would make it actually about the right price.

Here are my thoughts:

Reading the article on the brushes, the new brushes don't sound to be Kolinsky Sable anymore, with the exception of the Artificer brush.

The Base brush is described as being "hard-wearing and also retaining plenty of paint". Which is fine; I use cheap synthetic flats for basecoating anyhow. These brushes never last for me, so I don't want to spend a premium. I'm very happy they're suggesting to flats for basecoating; I could never imagine why anyone would elect to use the Citadel Basecoat brush to basecoat. The medium basecoat brush just looks weird. It looks to be extremely short-bristled. Also, there should be a flat that's smaller than the Large base brush.

They say the Shade brushes are designed to hold ample quantities of Citadel Shade while retaining control. Why you would use a massive Filbert to shade with, I have no idea, though. On very large models (like a Knight), I would NEVER shade the entire model; I'd work just the crevices.

They say the Glaze brush is intended for detailed glazing work, with a fine point for "careful application". I don't know what this means, as I'm not sure how this would be different than careful application of a shade. Or anything else, for that matter. Although, I use old brushes for glazing/shading, rather than my spiffy new brushes, since the paint gets in the ferule.

Drybrushes - Okay, these sound like they make sense. I will miss the old round ones. Well, not really; I have a stock of like, 10 or 12 of each, so I'm not going to run out any time soon, but I'm not sure why they don't think round drybrushes have merit now. A mix of Ox hair and synthetic blend; I really like their old drybrushes, including the large one, so I'll be happy with these, I suspect.

Scenery Brushes - Hog hair and ginormous. I'm not sure how these will be. The flat has much shorter bristles than what you'd see in most art stores or paint shops, and is otherwise unspectacular looking, and the round is a curious brush (it has no point, and looks like a makeup brush). I look forward to a Duncan Rhodes video on the optimal use of the round

The paint spreader, I think is the same as what comes with the sculpting tools right now. It's nylon and the basing textures don't stick to it, yay.

The Artificer brush, ironically, they don't say much about. Just the sidebar: "The Artificer Brush has finest quality sable bristles. Use it for those finishing touches".

My 2 bits worth; I'll probably get a full set next week (minus the spreader) to try them out.

--

@sockwithaticket - there are very few brushes -- if any -- at an arts store that give you the same quality as the old GW brushes for less money. The old standard, detail, and fine detail brushes were all kolinsky sable brushes (albeit relatively poor ones compared to top tier brushes) at the prices well below kolinsky offerings at art stores. Frankly, there aren't even many kolinsky sable brushes at most art stores, most being synthetic bristle.

@oni - I agree! It's possible to produce excellent results with (the old) Citadel brushes. Although I would still say that if someone can afford it and they love painting, they owe it to themselves to own at least one nice set of brushes. It's a noticeable difference.

Ironically, I gave my wife my Citadel brushes (minus drybrushes), which she loves for application of makeup.

Well then. I got their kolinsky sable brushes just in time.

But.....

Out of all the brushes that came in my order, the one that had to have the end protection fall off, bounce around, and splay out my end like a drybrush ended up being the Fine Detail Brush...working on straightening it out rofl..

Any tips since they are no longer in stock?

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Well then. I got their kolinsky sable brushes just in time.

But.....

Out of all the brushes that came in my order, the one that had to have the end protection fall off, bounce around, and splay out my end like a drybrush ended up being the Fine Detail Brush...working on straightening it out rofl..

Any tips since they are no longer in stock?

contact GW and they will replace it.

To fix the brush, wet it, roll it in the crevice of your palm or across your lips until it forms a sharp point and hang it bristles down til it dries.

 Talys wrote:


@sockwithaticket - there are very few brushes -- if any -- at an arts store that give you the same quality as the old GW brushes for less money. The old standard, detail, and fine detail brushes were all kolinsky sable brushes (albeit relatively poor ones compared to top tier brushes) at the prices well below kolinsky offerings at art stores. Frankly, there aren't even many kolinsky sable brushes at most art stores, most being synthetic bristle.

.

I can't speak to what's on offer in art stores where you are, mate, but here in the UK you can definitely get brushes that are the equivalent of the standard brush for less money and from the looks of it most of these new brushes, too. I should also clarify that when I say equivalent product I'm talking chiefly about performance rather than production material. That said if we are talking production material, perhaps the reason there aren't many Kolinsky Sable brushes the equivalent of the old citadel line in an art store is that if someone selling their products through such a shop is going to go the Kolinsky Sable route, then they're going to do it properly (at which point you can still pick them up for £6 plus depending on brush size and brand which, given the step up in quality, it does make them better value than the citadel brushes). Up until recently I worked in a school doing a supply teacher/admin combo role and I spent quite a bit of time in the art department due to those teachers seemingly always being ill; they used brushes that were about £1 or £2 and some of them were crap, but some of them were actually really good, held a point well enough to paint details (if not really fine highlights). From my experience that puts them at easily the level of the old standard and detail brushes.

Regarding the new brushes I highly doubt that many of them are going to be Kolinsky Sable. Take the medium base brush, 6 euros according to the price list, that's £4.36 (will probably be rounded up to £4.50); if you can't do better than that when you go looking in an art store, then, frankly, you're not trying. If we're talking Kolinsky Sable brushes like this Artificer Brush is supposed to be then 15.50 euros = £11.25 (probably be bumped up to £11.50) and that is definitely a couple of quid more than you can get the equivalent W&N product for (should be in the £8.50 - £10.50 range in a store, no more than £9 online).


I'd also say that you are clearly a very good painter and the old citadel brushes in your hands are likely a very different prospect to what they'd be in the hands of most. For myself I know my painting took a leap when I switched from Citadel to Army Painter and then a much bigger leap when I started using W&N.

@sockwithaticket - I think that hobby and fine art synthetics work fine... I used $3 brushes for years. My main problem with them is that no matter how kind you are to them, they kink, lose their point and then they go into the never ending drybrush pile :(

When I went to natural hair brushes, I was amazed at how much mileage I could squeeze out of them. The old citadel ones didn't hold a point for any length of painting (like Raphael or w&n) but they did seem to have very good endurance.

In Western Canada, craft and fine arts shops carry piles of cheap brushes, and a small number of top brushes. There isn't much in between. I just think for learning, a $15+ brush could be wasteful, because most of us aren't that diligent in brush maintenance at first, and we tend to do things we shouldn't, like jam nice brushes into tight crevices.

I'm totally with you on W&N (really, any of the top tier brushes) -- they are just such a great to use! And, thank you for the complement

 granander wrote:

I have chosen to use W&N S7, but then again I am an idiot with more money than brains. For me it has been a matter of wanting the best.

I bought a Size 2 and a Size 0.

The Size 2 appears to be on its way out after approximately 10-12 hours of light use. Very disappointed with that brand

 monders wrote:

 granander wrote:

I have chosen to use W&N S7, but then again I am an idiot with more money than brains. For me it has been a matter of wanting the best.

I bought a Size 2 and a Size 0.

The Size 2 appears to be on its way out after approximately 10-12 hours of light use. Very disappointed with that brand

Very sad to hear that :(

I think you should return it... Mine are the most durable I have ever seen... a friend at the club is considering retiring his set but that is after 12.000pts worth of WHFB.