Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am new to Space Marines and I am very interested in playing an Ultramarine army with drop-pods. Before I buy more models I want to be sure that I had a good list.

I would like the list to be somewhat competitive because I might want to participate in local tournaments in the future.

I found this list online that looks fun and I would like to know if anything should be changed:
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/2nd-Overall-Carlos-Kaiser-Space-Marines.pdf

2 questions:
I was wondering is why didn't he take the Armour of Antilochus?
I might be completely wrong but doesn't the armour let him use the (rerollable if in tac squad???) orbital bombardment on the drop or could he do that anyway?

Would a list that had less drop pods, Tigurius, Centurions, stormtalons, and a thunderfire cannon be more effective?


Also, I would really appreciate any advice on how the list is played.

Considering that the list placed 2nd at a large tourney, nothing really needs to be changed, but of course you can if you want. A stormtalon and a TFC would make good additions. This is what i would call a defensive drop pod list. The pods are put on objectives, and they stay there for the whole game because the opponent is too busy killing the occupants. The list doesn't have any AA because it simply ignores flyers. As for Calgar, it is possible that the terminator armour prevents him from going in the drop pod, but im not sure. To be honest the terminator armour doesn't really benefit him very much, so it doesn't matter either way. It could even be that it's a WYSIWYG thing and he had him modeled with artificer. Anyways just my $0.02, have fun out there.

Hello! First off welcome to the Ultramarines, let me be the first in congratulating you on picking such an honorable chapter to represent your might on the battlefield. Now for some quick background, I have been playing every conceivable Ultramarine build in the codex and place fairly high both at my FLGS leagues and in tournaments. Given this knowledge and the knowledge of the BAO CK placed second at I can in fact tell you that his list could be better.

First to answer your questions

1. Calgar is an amazing character in Ultramarine tactical lists, and the reason CK didn't put him the armor was both A) He didn't have 10 points to spare, and B) Calgar in TDA takes up two slots in a drop pod. Notice how one pod only had 9 tactical marines instead of 10? That's the pod Calgar went in.

2. CK planned to null deploy, meaning he didn't want any units on the board turn 1 both to properly punish his opponent's deployment and also to help deny his opponent first blood. (an important strategy at this particular tournament). The problem with centurions, tigurius, and thunderfire cannons is they have to start on the board, thus possibly giving up first blood.

Note: I have had recent success with flyers in these kinds of lists along with tigurius to make sure they come on turn 2 with his reroll reserves ability. Stormtalons and a Fire Raptor only!
Another thing I've been doing is maximizing my first turn alpha strike by buying pods for thunderfirecannons and then deploying the TFCs on the board instead of in the pods. This creates empty pods and thus mitigates the amount of points you have in reserves.

It sounds to me like you know roughly what is good in re codex and what kind of lists you want, so I'm going to just keep my advice simple. CK got second place not with strength of list, but because he knew his list so well. His list had a lot of philosophies I personally don't agree with (mixing special weapons, 9 man squads, expensive sternguard) but at it's core it is very similar to the lists I run. So use it as a base and remember, you can ally space wolf or blood angel fast attack slot pods to put things like centurions now. CK didn't have that option when he created this list.

Most importantly have fun, and NEVER put your marines in a position to get multi-charged and killed turn 1

ALWAYS SMURF! ALL THE TIME!

- You don't always need Sternguard in a Smurf list, as Tyrannic War Veterans make a decent (and cheaper) replacement for them if you're going up against 'nids. Consider swapping the two out per the situation, as Tyrannics are more specialized.

-If going for Tyrannics, consider Cassius or a Chaplain.

-Tacticals aren't everything. Consider taking a couple scouts, mmkay?

-Drops Pods are all well and good at getting men to the field, but consider swapping out with Razor/Rhino as needed. Beware of interceptor shots if you're going with Drop Pods, as those will feth you up majorly on approach.

-Have you considered Tigger if you're going for a Drop Pod army? Great supporting HQ, and a combat BEAST with Biomancy.

One thing I have always found is that you should never "half-way" kit out your units.
i.e If you don't have the points to properly equip a unit for what their purpose is ( and every unit should have a specific purpose in mind when you are building your list)Then it would be better not to buy the unit at all and spend the spare points elsewhere instead.

For instance, if you want to use Tigerius and devastator centurions it would be a waste of points to skimp out and leave them with heavy bolters. Similarly there is little reason to purchase Sternguard if your not going to give them special or combi-weapons to deal with threats (not that they’re useless or anything just not optimal)

Never mix and match your ranged weapons. For cc its a little more forgiving because you can basically kit out to deal with different types of threats.

As far as tacticals go: its ok to take special weapons, but don’t get the heavy weapons. It’s a point trap that for a gun that half the time you’re going to be snap firing. If you want heavy weapons get a Devastator Squad.

All of the Ultramarine doctrines are awesome, and they are even more awesome with Calgar. Consider running him if you have the points. Plus he gets extra warlord traits and Eternal Warrior. Awesome right?

Tigerius is coveted for his ability to roll on divination mastery level 3 and his ability to reroll powers he doesn’t like. Plus reserves manipulation AND an awesome force weapon? Yeah he’s awesome, and probably the best HQ in the entire codex. Consider allying in a drop pod( or just steal one from an assault squad or something) and run 3 grav centurions with him (rolling for invisibility) to create a nice combo that will wreck MCs and tanks alike. Also make sure to try to take advantage of his reserves manipulation in order to make sure that your units come in when you want them to. ( note that he can reroll successful as well as failed rolls in case you want something to stay in reserves a bit longer)

Cassius is OK. He’s the ony unit in the codex with T6, but since you’ll want to run him with a unit so its kinda pointless…… He suffers from the same weaknesses as all chaplains, but hey heavy flamers are cool!

A lot of what the posters above me posted is true. However they were both wrong about a few things.

No, tyrannic war veterans are the same cost as sternguard (92 points base for 4 guys, 23 ppm) however you don't always need sternguard and yes scouts sprinkled in are amazing. Rhinos only, razorbacks are pretty meh.

Don't buy CC weapons on your marines, only HQs. Heavy weapons in podded tacticals are fine however, never put them in the actual pods. Combat squad the unit and put the heavy weapon on the board and let the other unit come in the pod. This is good if you need backline units and some extra firepower.

Calgar only gets ONE warlord trait, but since the space marine dex ones are pretty meh you're better off rolling once on strategic.

Other then these things everything these guys said is really spot on. (especially the guy above me)

Extra warlord trait rolls I meant. He doesn't get both. It's the God of War special rule I believe

Thanks for the advice! Would this list be effective at all? I'm not really interested in allies too much unless it's a HUGE improvement. I also want to use sternguard for sure.

HQ:
Tigurius. 165pts

TROOPS:
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Drop Pod. 195pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Rhino. 195pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Rhino. 195pts
10 Tacticals: plasma gun, Combiplasma, Rhino. 200pts
10 Tacticals: plasma gun, Combiplasma, Rhino. 200pts

ELITE:
10 Sternguards: 2 Combiflamers, 5 Combimelta, Drop Pod. 335pts (combat squads after drop)

FAST ATTACK:
5 Assault marines: 2 Flamers, Drop Pod. 95pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:
6 Devastators: 4 Lascannons. 164pts
Thunderfire cannon. 100pts

TOTAL: 1,844pts

 grimgunman wrote:
Thanks for the advice! Would this list be effective at all? I'm not really interested in allies too much unless it's a HUGE improvement. I also want to use sternguard for sure.

HQ:
Tigurius. 165pts

TROOPS:
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Drop Pod. 195pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Rhino. 195pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Rhino. 195pts
10 Tacticals: plasma gun, Combiplasma, Rhino. 200pts
10 Tacticals: plasma gun, Combiplasma, Rhino. 200pts

ELITE:
10 Sternguards: 2 Combiflamers, 5 Combimelta, Drop Pod. 335pts (combat squads after drop)

FAST ATTACK:
5 Assault marines: 2 Flamers, Drop Pod. 95pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:
6 Devastators: 4 Lascannons. 164pts
Thunderfire cannon. 100pts

TOTAL: 1,844pts

Like I said before you are on the right track. This list is viable against the casual players, and would work fine against most of the opponents you are sure to face.
I'm going to nitpick it for you, but I would like to add a disclaimer; I do not wish to force you to become a WAAC competitive player, and I think ultimately you should play the lists you come up with out to see exactly what you want. Having said that, I would NOT take your list to a competitive tournament, and here is why.

First thoughts: You have the right idea, ultimately I feel like your drop pod count is way too low for what you want to do with your army. I am not a fan of more rhinos then pods because well, Pods>Rhinos.

HQ Choice: Tigurius works best in centurion stars. Plain and simple. In this list his 3 psyker levels is underwhelming against psyker armies and not very potent against non-psyker armies. My first question I ask when picking Tiggy for my list is, "where does he go?" You need him in a strong unit he can support, and also that exact same unit must be able to protect him. Enter your devastator squad. I know this is your first choice, and at first glance it seems perfect. He can give them perfect timing and prescience, as well as possibly being a beat stick unit if someone charges them. The problem is, 9 marines isnt very survivable. I say 9 marines because you have 6 in your squad, and Tiggy is basically 3 because of his wound count. Let's say you put them in a position to cover as much of the board as possible, that means things can shoot at them back. Lascannons aren't going to wipe a lot of units off the board, and a few unlucky penetration rolls could leave your main unit out in the dust, and give your opponent first blood. The other choice isnt that much better. Let's say you are worried about your Tiggy and want to make sure he lives. Well then you have to keep the lascannons out of LOS, or maybe even *GASP* reserve them so they live. That isn't optimal. My ultimate decision here is you need a better HQ. You need a cheap HQ (librarians cost 100 less points then Tiggy) or a beat stick support unit that is going to claim some board for you and your blue smurf men (Calgar, beat stick CM). In this case I would go with the former. You have so many bodies that I feel like you can accomplish things you need with just doctrines.

100 points saved.

Troops Choice: This is where your army shines and where I feel you need to spend your most points. You do this perfectly, and the only real gripes I have are with the DT spread. In general you want melta/c-melta in pods, and plasma in rhinos. However, since plasma isn't very good in this meta, I think you should drop it completely. Also, you're going to need some range transport popping and may want some lascannons in your backline. This is what i have been trying and it seems to be working for me. Keep your rhinos cheap, they are easy to kill and don't offer a lot except mobility and a one turn buffer against shooting. So, make the tactical squads in the rhinos 5 man squads. and give them one lascannon apiece. This gives you some lascannon options and with the two other lascannons you just threw into your now podded melta/c-melta squads you have essentially a devastator squad split up among 4 objective secured units. You're welcome. Final troops list should look like this;

TROOPS:
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Drop Pod. 195pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Lascannon. Drop Pod. 215pts
10 Tacticals: Melta, Combimelta, Lascannon. Drop Pod. 215pts
5 Tacticals: Lascannon, Rhino. 125pts
5 Tacticals: Lascannon, Rhino. 125pts

875 pts

210 pts saved

Elites Choice: Not much to say here. I personally like 3 combi-meltas in my 10 man sternguard squads. I feel like that is the right amount of meltas needed to kill vehicles I don't like. The flamers aren't needed here, strenguard already do a great job of killing non-vehicle units. So lets just go with my idea. One 10 vet Sternguard squad with 3 combi-meltas and a pod.

250 pts saved

Fast attack choice: you found one of the hidden gems in the codex. Good job! I love these little guys, they do so much for so little. Maybe you can add more, but personally I don't see the need.

250 pts saved

Heavy support choice: This is the part of a space marine list that is really what makes or breaks your list. Currently I am running three TFCs to varying degrees of success. I'm not telling you, you should run 3.... but if you have 3 you should strongly consider running them. The main gripe I have with the section is the dev squad. So let's axe that

414 pts saved

Phew! now that the fat is trimmed let's look at our options. First thing you may notice is we have 5 pods. now, I am not a big fan of just 5 pods. Only three come in, and 2 pods in reserve is just nasty enough to be game changing if only one doesn't come in. So let's add two more pods. Let's bring it down to 319 points and add in another assault squad. These buggers are just too good. Now. looking at the rest of your list I see a slight problem in your vehicle ass kicking meter. It's short 5 meltaguns. My only prescription is a command squad. You unlock them with the librarian, and you can buy them 5 special weapons and a pod. All for the bargain price of 185 pts. Which leaves you with 134 points. Here you have a few options.

Option 1: Bring back Tiggy and pop him in a rhino to help with some reserve manipulation. Get some upgrades.

Option 2: Get a stormtalon for some anti-air and reach. Melta bombs on the sternguard sergeant

Option 3: 1 more TFC. Get some upgrades

Option 4: Get a 10 man scout squad and give them camo cloaks.

Option 5: Get another rhino, write "ol' reliable" on it somewhere and jam as many random marines inside of it and hope to score some objectives with it.

Option 6: Don't add anything else. nothing is more impressive then beating an opponent and then exclaiming "Hey! I just saw that I had 134 points lying around unspent"

Ultimately if you follow this advice you will have a 7 pod MSU marines list that in fact can kick some hardcore butt.

I put a lot of time into this, so please be gentle. Unless you put an equal amount of time into arguing against it.

I want to thank you soooo much for your critique on my list.

Your changes make perfect sense and I have decided to follow them completely and add in a thunderfire cannon with the extra points.

That post helped me in so many ways and I really appreciate the time you spent to write this in depth look. This list looks like a lot of fun and I am really looking forward to playing it!

I absolutely agree with everything that hyozanman has to say.
Wanted to point out that if your ever looking for more drop pods to put tacticals in you can purchase them as a dedicated transport for thunderfire cannons and things like that and repurpose them accordingly.

On a side note: Unless In mistaken Assault Marines 80pts + two flamers(5pts each) = 90pts not 95. So there is 5 more points for you.
Good luck!

actually, I prefer 3 combi meltas 2 melta guns on my 10 man sternguard, you combat squad the meltas to one unit, the combi to another.

another thing-

Calgar, with this many marines, is wonderful. Why? you can use your tactical doctrine twice in a game. PLUS, you can auto fail leadership in CC just like back in 5th. That alone is worth his points. (not to mention he is a HELL of a beatstick and has ap2 shooting )

You're welcome! I love everything everyone is saying in this post, it's nice to see fellow gamers band together and all offer advice in helping a newer player out.

Some quick notes: I agree Calgar is amazing, especially in this kind of list. If you cut something out for him you would have no arguments from me.

I dont have my codex on me so if assault squads are 90 points why not give then melta bombs? Sometimes little things like that force your opponent to devote more shooting to units that they might not need to kill.