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I think a space marine captain/ CM deserves to take a centurion war suit if he wants to. something like:

For 30 points, a captain/ chapter master can take a Centurion War Suit and replace all weapons with two of those siege drill- things that assault centurions get. He gains +1T and +1W

Chaplains and librarians get this upgrade for 20 points.

they can be upgraded to heavy twin-linked heavy bolters for free

Can take grav- cannons and a grav- amp for 20 points

Can take a twin-linked lascannon for 20 points

Can replace hurricane bolters with missile launchers for 10 points

Can take an omniscope for 10 points

Can also take from the special- issue wargear list

In the fluff centurion pilots are drawn from the assault and devastator Marines, and they more or less always fight in them. It wouldn't make sense to have a captain or such fight in one because its kindof an all inclusive thing

from my belief, centurions are technically vehicles, and space marines are taught to pilot them during their vehicle training, so unless we can also take tank commanders (that would be awesome) we couldn't really take them. But still, that would be fun.

Why arnt Obliterator lords a an HQ for CSM therby unlocking them as troops choice?

 Filch wrote:
Why arnt Obliterator lords a an HQ for CSM therby unlocking them as troops choice?

Mutilator/ obliterator lords would be awsome. Oblit troops would be really stupid. Unbound oblit spam is one of the reasons unbound army comp will never be a thing in tournements. I say obliterator lords could be a thing too, but we would have to get creative/ cautious with any force multipliers they gave.

I also don't think centurions should be unlocked by the centurion commanders. Mostly, this will function as a way to get assault centurions a boost in my mind. With a captain/ CM strapped to the unit, they might be able to put out enough attacks to win combat and not be so vulnerable to tarpits.

As others have said, it just doesn't make sense fluff wise. Commanders are supposed to lead the army, take up a sword and charge into battle to inspire the troops, challenge opposing characters. This would be like having a devastator as your commander.... you won't have one sitting in the back with a lascannon. It'd be like having your commander just drive a predator all game, or a vindicator. It just doesn't make sense fluff wise.

Please no more centurion models. I wish the centurion wasn't in the game to begin with.

But Centurions! They're cool. But Centurion Captain wouldn't make sense for reasons already stated.

 Powerfisting wrote:

 Filch wrote:
Why arnt Obliterator lords a an HQ for CSM therby unlocking them as troops choice?

Mutilator/ obliterator lords would be awsome. Oblit troops would be really stupid. Unbound oblit spam is one of the reasons unbound army comp will never be a thing in tournements. I say obliterator lords could be a thing too, but we would have to get creative/ cautious with any force multipliers they gave.

I also don't think centurions should be unlocked by the centurion commanders. Mostly, this will function as a way to get assault centurions a boost in my mind. With a captain/ CM strapped to the unit, they might be able to put out enough attacks to win combat and not be so vulnerable to tarpits.

if you thought unbound oblit spam was bad? What about unbound jokearo spam! 76 ring lascannons shooting a turn at 1000pts!

Watch GW feth it up by making Mutilator Lord and WarpTalon lord only!

Whilst I'm not advocating a centurion commander (I'd think it would be totally permissible for the captain of the dev reserve company to have a spruced up suit though) it does beg to question a few things I've always thought is a bit weird, especially when they are in term armour as there is no reduced mobility by carrying them, why don't commanders get access to special and heavy weapons? Game mechanic wise I can understand totally, but you rarely ever hear of it in the fluff also... I'd be taking an assault cannon all the time if I was a captain with my own set of termie armour.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst I'm not advocating a centurion commander (I'd think it would be totally permissible for the captain of the dev reserve company to have a spruced up suit though) it does beg to question a few things I've always thought is a bit weird, especially when they are in term armour as there is no reduced mobility by carrying them, why don't commanders get access to special and heavy weapons? Game mechanic wise I can understand totally, but you rarely ever hear of it in the fluff also... I'd be taking an assault cannon all the time if I was a captain with my own set of termie armour.

Space Marines like honourable melee!

SGTPozy wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst I'm not advocating a centurion commander (I'd think it would be totally permissible for the captain of the dev reserve company to have a spruced up suit though) it does beg to question a few things I've always thought is a bit weird, especially when they are in term armour as there is no reduced mobility by carrying them, why don't commanders get access to special and heavy weapons? Game mechanic wise I can understand totally, but you rarely ever hear of it in the fluff also... I'd be taking an assault cannon all the time if I was a captain with my own set of termie armour.

Space Marines like honourable melee!

While true, we still get shooty relics as otherwise we don't exactly make use of the BS5.

It is because GW doesn't make a Captain in Centurion Armour model. If Centurions came out 15 years ago, you'd have been able to stick him in a suit.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It is because GW doesn't make a Captain in Centurion Armour model. If Centurions came out 15 years ago, you'd have been able to stick him in a suit.

Well yeah, this. Except, sometimes people think that having rules means something exists in the background, and that it is bad for something in the background to not have specific separate rules. Maybe that is going on in this thread.

I think that even though there are rules in the codex for double powerfists on a bike, that such things do not happen in the background and do not exist.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:Whilst I'm not advocating a centurion commander (I'd think it would be totally permissible for the captain of the dev reserve company to have a spruced up suit though) it does beg to question a few things I've always thought is a bit weird, especially when they are in term armour as there is no reduced mobility by carrying them, why don't commanders get access to special and heavy weapons? Game mechanic wise I can understand totally, but you rarely ever hear of it in the fluff also... I'd be taking an assault cannon all the time if I was a captain with my own set of termie armour.

There are two really big prohibitive factors. One is that that the captains do not want to use heavy weapons, and that the rest of the chapter do not want them to use heavy weapons and would be fairly cross at the captains for doing so, and the other one is that they are not actually capable of using melta/flamer/plasma/grav special weapons or bolter/las/missile/etc heavy weapons. As an addendum, I will say that captains do actually use about a dozen special weapons, as well as tanks and close support aircraft, they just have other people to aim and pull the triggers for them.

For the first part, we'll say that special and heavy weapons have special uses, like attacking specialized targets. Captains also have specialized uses, and since they are officers of the chapter with responsibilities to the chapter, they have to do those specialized tasks or they get fired from being a captain. You have to notice that sergeants in devastator squads do not carry heavy weapons, and that the official model the captain of the tenth company wears power armor, and in fact it would be really bad for him to wear scout armor and act as a scout. If he infiltrates with one scout squad, he is occupied with the situation of that unit and not be in an optimal position to command any additional scout or support units to the degree the chapter needs them to be commanded. Having a special weapon prevents the captain from doing his job, and the specialty of the captain is to not perform the specialties of other personnel

In the second part, even though a single marine carries, aims, and fires a special weapon, that marine cannot function on the battlefield without several other marines accompanying him. The marine's special weapon is for killing things. Since he has to try for a kill by getting a good position, waiting for the target to present itself for a clean shot, aiming the weapon, and making sure the weapon is available to fire when the target is in view, he does not have the ability to shoot at other things that might end up threatening him, just by virtue of only being able to point the weapon in one direction at any given time. He probably is also incapable of surveying all the available targets and prioritizing among them. If your captain gets a squad to do all of this for him, he essentially becomes the gunner in a tactical squad, and that squad will then need another officer to command them relative to other squads.

Having a bolter or a combi-weapon is very different. They are small arms, personal arms. In both of those cases, the weapons can be fired at targets of opportunity, and instead of targets deliberately sought. They expend ammunition at different rates, can sustain their fire for different rates, and can be ready for subsequent firing in a different amount of time.

The captain cannot of course for fluff reasons, but what about a master of the forge or a tech marine, could one of them have access to a centurion suit, they would be avaliable for back field support, and not need to be leading or completing challenges or the like. Thoughts?

They'd look silly.

An independent veteran seargent that could pick and choose Bike/jetpack/ etc gear would be pretty nifty "including cent suits"

Just to echo thoughts going around about the Fluff reason as to why:
simply command

The commander of any of the Chapters or even Dev Captain would need to be able to sit at his desk in the command Rhino, or pick-up and lead a critical Assault Strike by assault troops, hold an important objective, etc... Flexibility.

Having to go and equip a Centurion suit, let alone pick-up a Lascannon and make proper use of it would require him to pretty much "give up" commanding anything for half an hour. So the guy *could be* a centurion, but he would not be any different than rank-and file, and another "commander" would be making tactical decisions

What if the chapter chapion could instead take the centurion armor. (or an inquisitor? or grey knight?)
He could have a relic blade and storm shield (or maybe an assault cannon) in addition to the hurricane bolters.

Also, Why arnt scout commanders a thing, I think an army based around that would be vary cool. Like really good IG veterans but with space marine wargear.
Note: yes I do realise that Telion is a commander of sorts, but he isnt an HQ.

Why not have a dread for your HQ? (other then the fact walkers suck)
Really though, these guys usually have centuries of experience, why not have them lead the forces sometimes (like during sieges)

If the reason is that a Captain would be unable to command, why does this not apply when they're busy jumping on the heads of their enemies with an Assault Squad, or driving at high speed on a bike? Neither of those tasks really allow them to tap away at their tablet PC, and are arguably more mentally taxing than using a tank/Centurion warsuit/heavy bolter.

The reason is that Captains are less commanders and more just paragons of the ideal Space Marine. They physically lead attacks in the most "heroic" and "glorious" way possible, and that means getting into the face of the enemy and hitting them repeatedly with a big piece of metal. This is most likely why they rarely get much in the way of shooting options, and why there's no Terminator-armoured Chapter Master known for his use of dual arm-underslung heavy bolters.

there are assault centurions, which do hit things. I'm sure the idea of the OP is that these characters would have "character armed" centurion suits, like this.



I also have to follow your paragon idea further. You didn't say there is a captain who is fighting his way through every bog-standard enemy that gets in front of him, one batch at a time. You have a captain who is fighting in the most heroic and glorious way possible. That means a showdown at whatever relic, or control room, or enemy personality the battle was over in the first place.

There is the reason he would have a jump pack, because he would be commanding many units in a battle in order to gain access to some objective, and then need to seize on said access, however temporary, by being able to propel himself at high speeds over obstacles.

I don't think a tablet PC or other type of information technology is what he would be doing, and I don't think "mental taxation" is an issue.

I do think that someone who is attempting to use a weapon to fight a single individual enemy is not able to use the many weapons of a marine company to fight lots of enemies.

I don't know if I would like to see it as an upgrade, but a Special Character on the other hand for someone like the Iron Hands Commander in Assault Centurion Armor.

Marine commanders also need mobility to re-deploy to the part of the battle that needs their personal attention. Centurion armor is just too slow and ponderous for that.