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Wasn't quite sure if I should put this in rumours or not. Decided not to as it's not a rumour.

I was just wondering. At some point in time we were getting all kinds of legion rumours, with several books and all.
Were they completely wrong or is that still a possibility? What with GW avoiding legions like a plague, removing veterans of the long war and Kharn from daemonkin. Despite some of them being around since the heresy.
The fluff still features them prominently. And by legions I mean warbands or what's left of them , as per the black library books and what have you. I'm just going to go ahead and ignore the Black Legion supplement ever happened.

The rumours seemed fairly certain as far as rumours go, and everybody still wants to see them. I'm just curious if that's still a possibility, or if they turned out to just be the daemonkin books, which I'm going to assume we will be seeing, although I wouldn't put it past GW to stop after the Khorne book.,

You never know, but current rumor suggest it was all fake. As of right now, current rumors point to no Chaos Space Marine related releases at all this year.

Currently it looks like they're instead doing "X Daemonkin" codexes, which are half-CSM, Half daemon armies focusing on one god.

So we got Khorne and next up is Tzeentch, which you could call a "Thousand Sons" codex.


I actually kinda like this better. Things like Night Lords and Alpha Legion get left out but including daemon stuff makes it more of a full Dex than a pay money for a couple special rules thing.

Except for the part where you lose your tanks and chosen and special characters and oblits and veteran rules and....i think you see where I'm going with this .

They did the same with crimson slaughter... if it allowed veterans it would make for a decent word bearers codex for chaos marines standards, but nope.

I mean the khorne daemonkin is more good than bad but still, they could have made much more out of it. They already copy pasted, so they could just have put the tanks and what not in and called it Khornes chosen or something.

The codex is...ok. But it's got nothing legion about it. You can't really make a world eaters force. Which is fine, IF they're plan was to bring another codex later so that you can field Kharn and his buddies with bloodtithe or something bloodtithe eqivalent.
The butcher Horde doesn't count until/unless they update that with the bloodtithe rules.
Hence why I'm wondering if the rumours have gone completely cold or if GW still has something cooking.

Roknar wrote:
Except for the part where you lose your tanks and chosen and special characters and oblits and veteran rules and....i think you see where I'm going with this .

That was probably to fit the khorne ascetic. They could very well keep all of those in for future daemonkin books.

After the black legion supplement came out, I had hopes of more chaos legion supplements. But as more and more time went by, I've given up hope. Count on GW to do things half way... Well, more like 1/9 of the way.

The legion rumors went the same place as the plastic sisters rumors went. "Any year now." Ha ha ha!!

There never was any real credible rumors for more chaos stuff. Khorne Daemonkin was more or less a way to take advantage of the new Bloodthirster releases made for WHFB. There's no indication that it was the first part of a series.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Except for the part where you lose your tanks and chosen and special characters and oblits and veteran rules and....i think you see where I'm going with this .

That was probably to fit the khorne ascetic. They could very well keep all of those in for future daemonkin books.

They might, but that is beside the point. It's obvious they were trying to do something that had nothing to do with the Khorne associated traitor warbands that engage in more traditional warfare.
The lack of veterans, vindicators and of course Kharn indicates a chance that they had other plans for those. That, or they just plain half-assed chaos as they usually do, seeing as how the daemonkin fluff has some warbands that have been around since the heresy yet they're somehow not able to become veterans.

The rumours didn't have them set for release quite yet, just 2015 I think. But always take them with a pinch of salt.

However, we do have the second (third?) oldest Codex out there, and the Sisters of Battle are about as likely to get an update as Windows 95.

Has any of the reliable rumor mongers mentioned anything about additional Daemonkin books?

I haven't seen anything, Just people hoping for more.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
There never was any real credible rumors for more chaos stuff. Khorne Daemonkin was more or less a way to take advantage of the new Bloodthirster releases made for WHFB. There's no indication that it was the first part of a series.

I don't know....Seems like a decently thought out book and new mechanic (blood tithe) that falls in line with the flow of the newest books, which makes me think its not just a "Quick! lets do a 40k book for this Bloodthirster!"

Although the lack of World Eaters specific units/rules means GW made a HUGE oversight, and doesn't bode well for those of us that play straight up traitor legions rather then our daemonic cousins.

 KthuluQball wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
There never was any real credible rumors for more chaos stuff. Khorne Daemonkin was more or less a way to take advantage of the new Bloodthirster releases made for WHFB. There's no indication that it was the first part of a series.

I don't know....Seems like a decently thought out book and new mechanic (blood tithe) that falls in line with the flow of the newest books, which makes me think its not just a "Quick! lets do a 40k book for this Bloodthirster!"

Although the lack of World Eaters specific units/rules means GW made a HUGE oversight, and doesn't bode well for those of us that play straight up traitor legions rather then our daemonic cousins.

Or, perhaps it was purposeful and setting up the rumored traitor legions supplement? If the trend continues that may be the case.

Raven Cowl wrote:

Or, perhaps it was purposeful and setting up the rumored traitor legions supplement? If the trend continues that may be the case.

Oh man...if that is the case... *head explodes*

 KthuluQball wrote:
I don't know....Seems like a decently thought out book and new mechanic (blood tithe) that falls in line with the flow of the newest books, which makes me think its not just a "Quick! lets do a 40k book for this Bloodthirster!"

Eh.... I like the bloodtithe mechanic and formations, but the lack of innovation/updates in the actual units make me think it's more of a cashgrab than anything properly thought out. This is made worse by the amount of changes Eldar went through. Overpowered or not, they saw quite significant changes. Compare that to the copy pasta Khorne Daemonkin got and it looks even more like Codex: new bloodthirster.

It feels more like a new take on 6th edition supplements than a proper codex to me. I don't believe GW would be derp enough to simply forget to put the tanks n stuff in.They just happened to half-ass it in order to fit in with the End Times cycle in time. I'm guessing they were thinking that world eaters are possible if you play with enough points. You can take Kharn's butcher horde and add tanks or daemonkin as needed.

If they indeed cover the other gods, I can still see it happening that they allow for the appropriate legions to work with them, seeing as how they don't have any dataslates to help with the legions. As much as they avoid the subject, they still sell the shoulder pads for the majority of legions, as well as some upgrade kits after all.

I refuse to believe GW would intentionally not dig deeper into the forces of chaos that plague the imperium and as such drive the story. My group can't be the only one who would rather pick an actual enemy to an imperial army than another imperial army given the choice. And currently that choice is pretty meh when it comes to chaos. (not including forgeworld anyway). Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I had to describe 40k in a nutshell. I'd say it was the forces of the imperium versus the forces of chaos....and then there's also some other stuff going on. Not to bash xenos, they're fun and have their place. It's just that the core of the setting is empire vs chaos, to me anyway.

I totally agree. In fact, as a newcomer to Chaos I'm a little disappointed at the lack of variety I mean literally all Night Lords get is a change of clothes? Perhaps, it's the idealist that never quite died in me but I hope GW does do at least one traitor legions supplement just to add some diversity to chaos.

Raven Cowl wrote:

I totally agree. In fact, as a newcomer to Chaos I'm a little disappointed at the lack of variety I mean literally all Night Lords get is a change of clothes? Perhaps, it's the idealist that never quite died in me but I hope GW does do at least one traitor legions supplement just to add some diversity to chaos.

Traitors and renegades are the quintessential untapped market that GW hasn't had the sense to tap into. 'Chapter Tactics' for Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion? Yes please!

And I don't mean getting the Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter treatment... Maybe it's because Forge World got to em first...

 KthuluQball wrote:

Raven Cowl wrote:

I totally agree. In fact, as a newcomer to Chaos I'm a little disappointed at the lack of variety I mean literally all Night Lords get is a change of clothes? Perhaps, it's the idealist that never quite died in me but I hope GW does do at least one traitor legions supplement just to add some diversity to chaos.

Traitors and renegades are the quintessential untapped market that GW hasn't had the sense to tap into. 'Chapter Tactics' for Night Lords, Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion? Yes please!

And I don't mean getting the Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter treatment... Maybe it's because Forge World got to em first...

I'll have to look into IA 13 then. Thanks!

I don't think IA13 has legion specific rules, just a metric feth-ton of options for Chaos. I'm referring to the Legion rules in one of the Horus Heresy books. I wish I could tell you which one, but they're a little steep for my price. I suppose some intranetting would turn up the answer....

And yeah, I know its for 30k...

The google machine tells me its in HH 2: Massacre

Oh. Ok, still cool though. I'd be perfectly fine letting 30k Chaos into 40k if it meant something less bland than what Chaos usually has.

I certainly would welcome a fun, fluffy pickup game with Legion rules; anything that distinguishes our boys from the neighbors is welcome. I hate the idea that I'm just truly running basic CSMs with lightning bolts on their pants...

But then again, I've been hearing CSM players wishlist for the last 3 years since I got back into 40k...

 KthuluQball wrote:
I certainly would welcome a fun, fluffy pickup game with Legion rules; anything that distinguishes our boys from the neighbors is welcome. I hate the idea that I'm just truly running basic CSMs with lightning bolts on their pants...

But then again, I've been hearing CSM players wishlist for the last 3 years since I got back into 40k...

Yeah, stuff like Sonic Weapons on Empereror's Children Helbrutes or some actual mechancal benefit to running Legions would get me much more into Chaos. Sadly, GW doesn't seem to have anyone on staff who cares a terrible lot about CSM atm.

Re: sonic weapons on Helbrutes - see IA:13.

I would not be surprised to learn Codexes for individual legions are already written and awaiting a release spot, which will not happen any time soon. I think GW keeps these sitting around for quarters where they need a boost in profits.

Thing is, while the 30k rules are awesome and all..they're different from the legions in the 41st millenium.

IA 13 is pretty much perfect in terms of vehicles. With even some faction specific vehicles. And for the legions that use alot of cultitsts... the renegades and heretics are a godsend.

But the book doesn't touch on infantry. I tried coming up with formations in my Decurion Style Chaos Legions thread, but it's nothing official of course. Sadly, until GW decides gets their head out of the sand and acknoledges Forgeworld fully. It seems to me that Forgeworld is in a better place to do chaos legions than GW. But ofc they're totally caught up in the Horus Heresy for next..I dunno..years ? XD

I'm not complaining. The day they make a good CSM codex again that lets me properly have a Traitor Legion force and/or good plastic Plague Marines is the day I probably pick up 40k again. I figure I have at least two years lol

Remembered chaos 3.5ed. What they had Inside was all the stuff you need to built a Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion etc army. I think that what we want. No new codex but all the little extre to built our legion.

If you pay very close attention to how the rumors are coming true, it's all been said months ago.. My guess is that Dark Angels will be next followed by Tzeentch.

WhispererofTruth is new to the rumor game but mentioned to me in PM that a new Plastic Lord of Change and Tzeentch demon unit is coming, on top of a Tzeentch book. Time will tell.

I am not convinced that Ahriman would be in such a book, so it wouldn't be a "legion" book. I hate the idea of legion tactics personally.

The idea of using a rule to change a unit into something else (3.5) is outdated. The legions need their own specific units. Example- I dont want Chosen to become sorcerers just by having the mark of tzeentch. I want a unit of sorcerers as an entry.

I am not convinced that Ahriman would be in such a book, so it wouldn't be a "legion" book. I hate the idea of legion tactics personally.

The idea of using a rule to change a unit into something else (3.5) is outdated. The legions need their own specific units. Example- I dont want Chosen to become sorcerers just by having the mark of tzeentch. I want a unit of sorcerers as an entry.

If they ever make legion books I would hope that they are in the vein of the loyalist books. You get the legion book, but it can also be used to make any offspring warbands. Otherwise Ahriman wouldn't show up in either that or the daemonkin book.
I don't see why people have so much trouble with chaos legions. They still each have their own strand of geneseeds after all and thus differ from each other even when you consider nothing else. The warbands are still on par with loyalist chapters despite their parent legion fracturing and they get their own books too, so why shouldn't chaos? You wouldn't necessarily have to call the legion books after their legions, but yea. You'd think a planet of sorcerers would warrant a different codex than an entire warband high on warp dust yelling at each other...or space zombies.

As for the units, I agree on that. Not only is the 3.5 model no longer used, but it so much better if you get the proper units with their own rules and models.

Yes we are in agreement in many ways. 40k is getting huge.

Also, I'm not so sure GW has any idea what "Thousand Sons" are... much less how their rules should be

Just look at that one batrep the WD crew did.. The "Thousand Sons" army had Ahriman, a squad of Thousand Sons, forgefiend, Hounds of Huron bikes, loads of chaos marines.

Yeah. Thousand Sons.

Seriously, where's the sorcerer coven and the divination? Bahaha