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The autocannon is an ancient weapon that chaos marines love to spam. Why cant they have 2 tl ac on a helbrute? Can we get sky fire on it?

Why cant the helbrute take 2 of the same guns like lc or ml?

Nothing says chaos like two of the same weapon.

Because it's in a chaos space marine codex. And it wouldn't be a chaos codex if GW didn't screw you over.

do the loyalist at least get skyfire double tl ac dreads?

It's not technically GW but

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEREDEO_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT.html

The dread on the other hand does not gain skyfire on it's autocannons, but it seems to have skyfire on it's missile launcher...unlike the chaos version.

Same reason chaos marines don't get drop pods.

did they develope the tl ac after 30k like the razor back, storm talon/eagle, 3 other kinds of lr and land speeder?

Because Loyalists can't have Forgefiends and Hellchickens. They're not the same army only with Marks.

This thing existed during the Horus Heresy 30k therefore some may have been stolen into the eye of terror and re emerged in 40k. They would be relics as it stated the extreme difficulty to manufacture and maintain.

Both SM n CSM need a good surface to air weaponry. That contemptor has a missile rack on its back with the 2 arm ac. In the front is tl hvy flamer! Does that get used in melee like auto d3 hits?

Roknar wrote:
It's not technically GW but

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEREDEO_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT.html

The dread on the other hand does not gain skyfire on it's autocannons, but it seems to have skyfire on it's missile launcher...unlike the chaos version.

If you mean the deredeo, the rules are on the site. Just scroll down in the description and you should see a link.
Loyalists get a lot more anti air than chaos if you figure in forgeworld. Chaos doesn't get a single dedicated anti air platform (I'm just going to pretend missile launcher havocs don't exist.). The best we can do is the forgefiend, rapier battery and sicaran, but since neither is interceptor, any of our fliers is equally as good.

Loyalists can only do twin auto-cannons if they use a specific variant of dreadnoughts found in Forgeworld books, correct? I don't think it's an option in the base codex.

So the reason there aren't Chaos dreadnoughts with two autocannons is because they don't have access to the Mortis Pattern dreads. By the same token, Loyalists don't have access to either the Ferrum Infernus Chaos Dreadnought, nor the Sonic Dreadnought.

I'd take a Ferrum Infernus any day of the week over a Mortis dread, for what that's worth. Oh no, you killed my dread HERE COMES A DAEMON PRINCE HURR HURR.

Because something has to be worse than the Loyalist dreadnought I guess.

Double AC seems neither Chaos-y or brutish. I wouldn't object, but it does feel a bit off. Maybe in an Iron Warrior or Renegades list?

Don't Havoks, but not Devs, get ACs?

Depends on the AC....if the AC had rules like the volkite wapons where the hits exlode in the victims face and you have a suitably chaos-y deredeo that's balls to the wall raging like an eversor on steroids?

Then I can totally see that working^^ Besides the forgefiend is kind of the chaos version of such a dread, if you stop to ignore the derpiness for a while.

And yes Havocs get them too and they work really well. But then chaos Rapiers with Hades autocannons make havocs seem like pussies.

I wanted my elite slot to have ac anti air since I am already running havocs with ac in my heavy.

Forge Fiend is very point inefficient and dies easy bc of av12.

try the chaos rapiers then MUCH more cost efficient. But unless you have a firstborn to sell, you're going to have to make the models yourself.
Every Chaos player owes it to themselves to have IA13 lol. you can take hell blades if you want anti air, they're fast attack and do a reasonably good job. Just don't expect them to stick around.

I want utilize my elite slot because my heavy slot is spoiled for choice...

In that case maybe a contemptor with dual butcher cannons. It's the closest you will get to a deredeo. Thats 8 str 8 shots at 36 inch.
Not that I would recommend it though.

cost from IA13? I guessing 200pts of worthlessness.

A base chaos contemptor is 195 points, and each gun there runs 25 apiece. It's full on Land Raider points cost. Lots of firepower though, and still BS4 which is nice. But it's not solving your anti-air problems.

Just realized something else if you're still hung up on this idea "Why can't I use Mortis pattern dreads?" You realize the ones with dual-weapons like Auto-cannons are heavy support slots, right? Which you don't want to utilize.

I thought they was elite dreds.

Some points of correction:

The GeeDubs-"official" codex for Loyalist Marines does allow the classic 'Rifleman' style Dread, where a pair of TLAC are taken. This is also available in the Elites slots, and optionally in HS as well if you take the MotF HQ.

The Mortis pattern box'naughts get to take everything else as a paired weapon- twin MLs, dual TLLC, you name it. Mortis Dreads, are also Elites, as are Loyalist Contemptor and Contemptor-Mortis types.

The Deredeo is HS, but also Loyalist only.

However, FW does beef up Chaos Dread options considerably- you can almost do a Rifleman dread using the FW "Ferrus Infernum" Dread, the Sonic Dreadnought fulfills a similar task to the Rifleman (arguably better, in fact), along with the Chaos Contemptor.

Said options are also all Elites choices too!

In any case, I would say that Helbrutes don't get to go Rifleman because Loyalists don't get ACs as a heavy weapon. Or combi-weapons for Terminators. Or bonus CCWs for their basic mangs. Or un-stunlockable vehicles. Or really big drop pods (Kharybdis claw says hi!). Or the really awesome version of the Fire Raptor.

 SRSFACE wrote:
Loyalists can only do twin auto-cannons if they use a specific variant of dreadnoughts found in Forgeworld books, correct? I don't think it's an option in the base codex.

It is indeed an option, or at least it was in the previous vanilla codex, and GKs too.

Someone hasn't read "Dude, wheres my land speeder"

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dude,_Where%27s_my_Land_Speeder%3F

A base chaos contemptor is 195 points, and each gun there runs 25 apiece. It's full on Land Raider points cost. Lots of firepower though, and still BS4 which is nice. But it's not solving your anti-air problems.

That's true, but then, neither does anything else csm has. The only ground unit with skyfire we have, even including FW, is havocs with missile launchers.
The hell blade is cheap enough to be an effective counter but ofc it's fast attack. As are most of our flyers.

There is of course always the option of taking a fortification, which doesn't use up any of your slots at all, but yea... not quite as cool.

However, FW does beef up Chaos Dread options considerably- you can almost do a Rifleman dread using the FW "Ferrus Infernum" Dread, the Sonic Dreadnought fulfills a similar task to the Rifleman (arguably better, in fact), along with the Chaos Contemptor.

You (and everybody else for that matter, including myself ) forgot the Decimator, which can also take dual butcher cannons. It costs the same as a dual butcher cannon contemptor and shoots just as "effectively" versus flyers and is slightly tougher.

Not sure what your take on allies is, but renegades and heretics get a hydra battery which is pretty nice.

Someone hasn't read "Dude, wheres my land speeder"

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dude,_Where%27s_my_Land_Speeder%3F

OMFG. Please good Sir, have some internets. That made my day. That's the best description of csm ever

rofl so hard i cried... because deep down i was sad at the truth.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:
Loyalists can only do twin auto-cannons if they use a specific variant of dreadnoughts found in Forgeworld books, correct? I don't think it's an option in the base codex.

It is indeed an option, or at least it was in the previous vanilla codex, and GKs too.

Oh you're right. Go look at that. Shows what I know.

I was going off the Skyfire thing it seemed like the OP wanted to get which is indeed still the purview of Mortis Pattern dreads.

close this sad thread...