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Just curious if there are any other good tabletop wargames like warhammer, but not where developers killed all atmosphere with their greed.

Maybe be a bit more specific with your request? Right now all we know is that you want some similarity to 40k but not a company like GW.

-What size/scope game (how many minis)
-What scale?
-How complex should the rules be?
-Do you want a "Complete-Package" (rules, minis and fluff from the same company) or are you willing to mix and match rules and minis ?
-Setting


Right now the only thing that is on the same scope, scale, similar (sci-fi) setting, and also a complete package would be Mantic's Warpath, though it is less complex rules-wise. Of course if you're willing to compromise on some of the other factors there are many other rulesets and games to choose from.

In terms of being a complete, three tool game (rules/models/fluff), the only other complete game is Warmachine, with a few other games that are either smaller in scope or scale (infinity, MERCs, warzone) or have incomplete aspects to their model ranges (Kings of War, Warpath, Bolt action).

There's no real shortage of rules (See this thread and others like it: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/282467.page#1385893) but the unified rules/models/fluff, in a sci fi setting, at the "reinforced platoon" size level is more or less 40k only.

I'm going to interpret "like warhammer" a couple ways.

1) Ganeplay wise: closest thing I've ever played to warhammer gameplay wise is Flames of War. Similar battle scale, similar d6 you-go-I-go turn format. Almost everything else is skirmishier.

2) Models wise: Warmachine is probably closest in the heroic scale 28mm model market. It's the only one with big...well...Warmachines. You could also look at infinity.

I say expand your horizons and try a bunch of games out. Warmachine is more tactical, Infinty is smaller scale but the gameplay is highly involved. see if anyone's willing to run a demo game and explore. This is a golden age of ttg's outside of GW.

I've been really enjoying dropzone commander. Great game smaller scale but very tactical. The starter set is great you get a gaming mat of sorts - scenery - the rules for all the races. They also Errata the rules for balance if it turns out that a certain unit choice is OP.

Dust looks really pretty.

Dropzone commander would be my first choice.

I know it's a historic-based game, but the rules for movement, combat and shooting are actually rather similar - just simplified so you can fit an entire game into an hour easily:

Saga

By GrippingBeast

Warzone is a great 28mm sci-fi wargame. Can be played on a similar scale or smaller. Has giant tanks, aircraft and giant daemons with guns, also has zombies with assault rifles. Easy mechanics, lots of special abilities, muuuuuuch cheaper than GW. Check out Warzone: resurrection. You can even use the same terrain. Very rich fluff as well.

Imperial Assault is much smaller scale but a very excellent game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And nobody mentioned X-Wing in this thread yet!

Warmachine? Saga? X-Wing? Dropzone Commander?
The OP is asking for games like Warhammer. Those games are all not even remotely like Warhammer.

The only other games like Warhammer and Warhammer 40k are Kings of War and Warpath by Mantic. They are the only games with the same scale, size of armies, comparable rulesets, widespread availability and where you can get everything you need in one place.
And most importantly, Mantic is a really nice company that produces good quality miniatures for very low prices and are all around fun-loving guys.
I really recommend them. The rules are free, and you can use your 40k or WHFB miniatures with them if you want to try it out.

I've been having a lot of fun with Infinity; it's smaller scale but it's got the most involved least sitting-around-waiting turn structure I've ever seen, it's really inexpensive, the rules are both free and fairly well-balanced, and the models are the only things on the market I'd call comparable to 40k's in quality. Coming to it from 40k you'd expect things to be a lot tougher than they are and getting them killed/getting your TAG hacked a lot while learning; it's worthwhile to try to treat the game like a tactical cover shooter video game because it feels a lot more like that than anything else.

WMH is a wonderful game but it's got a lot more of the second-layer game (spells, special actions, other wacky things that aren't represented on the table) than 40k does and it's the most synergy-dependent game I've ever seen. If you want to know more there's a guy called Grey Templar over in the WMH forums who can describe it all a lot better than I can.

Bolt Action is probably the closest you'll get to something that plays like 40k (done by some of the same people that started 40k in the beginning); I haven't gone for it because I'm not all that fond of the models but I am waiting on Gates of Antares (Warlord's sci-fi game) because I do like the rules. It's very symmetrical (a rifle is a rifle is a rifle at that level of detail), the morale mechanic is very well-done, and it's actually fairly inexpensive to do if you aren't planning on doing an obscure all-metal force.

I've been trying the FFG Star Wars games (X-Wing, Imperial Assault, Armada) but they all feel like re-releases of older games with more peripherals and proprietary dice you have to keep track of, and X-Wing at least is stuck in the list-building-beats-gameplay rut (also the table feels too small by comparison to movement and weapon ranges, it feels like the game has degenerated into two freightes flying around in circles shooting each other with a turret)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
good quality miniatures for very low prices

This is my hangup on Mantic. You get what you pay for models-wise, and you really aren't paying very much.

"Being like Warhammer, but not Warhammer" is not mandatory. I just want something remotely close, like, something that involves multiple races and war between them.

Warhammer fantasy is really fun. It's actually a thousand times more balanced than 40k. Except all that end times stuff.

Theres also warmahordes.

shyzo wrote:
"Being like Warhammer, but not Warhammer" is not mandatory. I just want something remotely close, like, something that involves multiple races and war between them.

Than it is easy There is a huge amount of miniature games with multiple out there!
Take a look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

2nd Edition D&D Battle System (the one from 1989)

 Icculus wrote:
Warhammer fantasy is really fun. It's actually a thousand times more balanced than 40k. Except all that end times stuff.

Theres also warmahordes.

It's better than 40k but Fantasy still isn't great if your army doesn't have magic or is slow. My lizzies, dwarves, and ogres auto lose against anyone that can suicide purple sun at them, which is a fair number of armies. Everyone seems to hate the new edition that is about to drop too.



WMH is a great game. It's complicated, more so than 40k, but the rules are much better written so there is less discussion (arguing) over what's legal. There are a lot of factions who hate each other, and the fluff is better written. I prefer 40k's universe but the writing in 40k is terrible lately.

Infinity is excellent and reminds me of the specialist games in a way. It's a small game though.

If you like battlefleet then I strongly encourage x-wing.


What parts of 40k do you like the best?

Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

Warmahordes. Technically "Warmachine and Hordes", they're two separate labels that use the same rules and are totally cross-compatible/cross-balanced, but they have a slightly different core mechanic.

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

WMH is Warmachine/Hordes, a skirmish game by Privateer Press. (Warmachine and Hordes are separate games, but their rules are very similar and they can be played together)
The rich lore and variety is not something you are going to find in any other game. WMH probably comes second and has a lot of variety in armies and units, but is not even close to 40k in its lore. WMH also has very nice miniatures, but there is little to no possibility for converting or modelling in WMH.
Also, no Matt Ward (though I believe he is gone from GW now as well)

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

Warmahordes, as stated above.

It has a very detailed rich lore, especially if you want to explore. The novels are pretty good, about as good as the better 40k ones.
There are a ton of miniatures, though they tend to be mono-pose. Some people do customize but it's not normally done.

The factions play radically different. Even different casters within the same faction play with more variety then dexes in 40k, not including allies.
There is constant war, and things are about to go from back to worse. Cryx harder 2015 is a thing.

No Matt Ward or anything as absurd as him in Warmahordes. It's pretty similar to 40k in some ways, though you'll need to shake a few bad habits. You may enjoy having way more options with each model in terms of what the model can do.
Throwing someone into the enemy warcaster to knock them down, then having another guy trample up to them is really cool


For lore I strongly encourage you to check out the Iron Kingdoms RPG book. It's...extensive, and is incredibly detailed. More so than anything in 40k, though this is most likely because it's a smaller setting being one planet and all.
My favorite part of 40k has always been the FFG books, or at least for the last few years that has been the case, but they pale when compared to the Iron Kingdoms books.

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

Are you just interested in sci-fi games? There's alot of good historical gaming systems for various eras.

axisofentropy wrote:
Imperial Assault is much smaller scale but a very excellent game.

I thought IA was supposed to be not much more than Descent with a SW skin.

 jasper76 wrote:

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

Are you just interested in sci-fi games? There's alot of good historical gaming systems for various eras.

Ha, been playing wh40k for quite long, almost forgot other genres even exist

Forgot to mention important thing: I need faction balance after 40k. No deathstars, Eldar, Tyranids / Imperial Knights allies and so on.

shyzo wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

shyzo wrote:
Uhm... Rich lore, ofc... Miniatures, variety, the idea of constant war... Things that can't be spoiled by Matt Ward

Sorry, what is "WMH"?

Are you just interested in sci-fi games? There's alot of good historical gaming systems for various eras.

Ha, been playing wh40k for quite long, almost forgot other genres even exist

Forgot to mention important thing: I need faction balance after 40k. No deathstars, Eldar, Tyranids / Imperial Knights allies and so on.

Warmachine/infinity/dropzone commander/malifaux/bolt action/flames of war/firestorm armada

All work.

shyzo wrote:


Forgot to mention important thing: I need faction balance after 40k. No deathstars, Eldar, Tyranids / Imperial Knights allies and so on.

I'll still recommend Saga.

The lore is based on historical events (or at least the Dark Ages period with your own made up events).
The game is exceptionally well balanced, there are no OP units. Everything has advantages and disadvantages without being too strong or weak.
The game is purely tactics based.
The game uses squads of 28mm Heroic miniatures on on 25mm bases
The units more 6'' for infantry, 12'' for cavalry and archers have a 24'' range - or something like that.
Game is played on a 48''x36'' board
Some models depending on faction can have weapon side-grades
Games can have anything between less than 30 models per side, with no maximum set (though obviously both forces have the same resources / points to spend on units).
You spent points to select squads of units.
You have options for HQ, elites (hearthguard), troops (warriors) and peasants (levy)

Those who disregard other games out of hand saying 'it's nothing like...' aren't helping much and likely are inexperienced with some of the games. Take a look at Saga, I've been converted to it.

Shyzo,
If you'd just take the time to answer the questions in the second post, this would be alot more fruitful and you'd get more tailored answers.

shyzo wrote:
Forgot to mention important thing: I need faction balance after 40k. No deathstars, Eldar, Tyranids / Imperial Knights allies and so on.

Pretty vague. Basically everything else on the market is so much better-balanced than 40k that it's not funny.

 Eilif wrote:
Shyzo,
If you'd just take the time to answer the questions in the second post, this would be alot more fruitful and you'd get more tailored answers.

Sorry, we had night here, so I went to sleep.

Alright, what I want:
1. Good balance.
2. Cool minis.
3. Cool fluff.
4. Cheaper than GW.

That's all.

Necromunda? Can use your spare bits lying around to convert a gang