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Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Basically, I have not played since 5th edition. And even then, it was mostly apoc games, and not particularly frequently.

Have some opportunities to play local games at 1250, no named characters. I wan't to keep it friendly, I certainly don't want to be "that guy".

At any rate, here we go:

HQ:

Daemon Prince, Wings, MOT, Power Armor, Black Mace - 265

Troops:

Chaos Marines x10 - 190
2x Plasma
Champ has Power Weapon, Meltabombs

In Rhino, Dirge, Havoc, Dozer - 57

Chaos marines x10 - 170
2x Flamer
Champ has Power Weapon, Meltabombs

In Rhino, Dirge, Havoc, Dozer - 57

FA:

Heldrake, Baleflamer - 170

HS:

Predator, TL Lascannon, Lascannon sponsons - 140

Obliterator, MON - 76
Obliterator, MON - 76


Brings me to just over 1200. Any suggestions what to add to get to 1250? Or just what to change in general?

Thanks in advance!

I would put some mastery levels on the Prince. That rounds things off nicely.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I would put some mastery levels on the Prince. That rounds things off nicely.

That's a good possibility. How about moving to Daemon of Slaanesh in place of Tzeentch, Taking mastery level 2, rolling on Biomancy.

Should put my total at 1246.


Thanks again.

Nurgle DP is by far the best.

I recommend...

Lord - MoN, Bike, Black Mace, Sigil, Long War, MoN, Melta Bombs, Blight Grenades
Chaos Marines 5 man Melta - Rhino
Chaos Marines 5 man Melta - Rhino
Termies x4 MoN, Heavy Flamer, Combi Melta x2
Oblits x3 MoN, Long War
Oblits x3 MoN, Long War
Drake

Lots of 2+ armor that can deep strike into the enemy backfield. Or keep the Oblits back for suppressing fire power.


Hope this helps.

I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

DP should be nurgle. Since you're going assault, you should be jinking to a 2+ cover save. MOT is not as helpful for assault princes. Also, I agree with the mastery levels, then go telepathy. The nurgle powers are pretty good, too. You can really tie units up with weapons virus (oh how sweet it would be for a cheese butt eldar bike list.

Also, consider at some point going double CAD with 3 DPs nurgled, with spell familiars, and a Be'Lakor. Psychic Shreik is incredible, and you're likely to get at terrify at least once on a DP, and Be'Lakor has it. Terrify the biggest best mob as many times as you can, psychic shreik it to death. They stack, btw. Then on everything else, dominate/weapon virus. The tears will flow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add, spell familiars are one of the best upgrades we have. You avoid perils because you have higher chances with less dice. Spell familiars on all princes with ML3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

Obliterators have their place. Yes, they are expensive, but one or two units of them deep striking, in the right list, really creates a distraction that must be dealt with. One Oblit, as a back field defensive unit is pretty nice, too Agree with everything else, though

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

Wow! Do you play Chaos at all? Oblits with MoN are one of the strongest units for Chaos. The list you propose will get riddled off the board. No long range at all. And at 1250 the Cultists are almost useless. Your opponent will kill off the HTH units before they make contact. And that's only two units. There will be nothing left of them. I predict tabling by turn three.

Please Bob do not listen do that guy. It's all good if you don't like my list but don't listen to him.

Gundor2 wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

Wow! Do you play Chaos at all? Oblits with MoN are one of the strongest units for Chaos. The list you propose will get riddled off the board. No long range at all. And at 1250 the Cultists are almost useless. Your opponent will kill off the HTH units before they make contact. And that's only two units. There will be nothing left of them. I predict tabling by turn three.

Please Bob do not listen do that guy. It's all good if you don't like my list but don't listen to him.

It's called a rush list. Do you even 40k?

1) Your Bike Lord is going to get ROFLstomped because he has 3 wounds and nobody to take hits for him. The Black Mace at AP4 is garbage - almost 50 points down the drain.
2) Oblits are insanely overpriced for what they do. You've got 500 points wrapped up in 6 models that aren't fearless. Spoiler Alert- they're going to fething die and then your offensive capability is zero. 6 Lascannons or Plasma Cannons isn't going to suppress anybody. My army list would fething laugh and take your lunch money. Have fun shooting at Spawn with 3 wounds a piece, because they're going to charge you T2 and the attached IC will wipe the unit.
3) You recommend Chaos Terminators? Hahahahahaha OK...amateur night here.
4) Heldrakes aren't nearly what they used to be. I hardly ever take them at 1850. At 1250 they're a liability.


I would absolutely love a matchup like this in a tournament.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Gundor2 wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

Wow! Do you play Chaos at all? Oblits with MoN are one of the strongest units for Chaos. The list you propose will get riddled off the board. No long range at all. And at 1250 the Cultists are almost useless. Your opponent will kill off the HTH units before they make contact. And that's only two units. There will be nothing left of them. I predict tabling by turn three.

Please Bob do not listen do that guy. It's all good if you don't like my list but don't listen to him.

It's called a rush list. Do you even 40k?

1) Your Bike Lord is going to get ROFLstomped because he has 3 wounds and nobody to take hits for him. The Black Mace at AP4 is garbage - almost 50 points down the drain.
2) Oblits are insanely overpriced for what they do. You've got 500 points wrapped up in 6 models that aren't fearless. Spoiler Alert- they're going to fething die and then your offensive capability is zero. 6 Lascannons or Plasma Cannons isn't going to suppress anybody. My army list would fething laugh and take your lunch money. Have fun shooting at Spawn with 3 wounds a piece, because they're going to charge you T2 and the attached IC will wipe the unit.
3) You recommend Chaos Terminators? Hahahahahaha OK...amateur night here.
4) Heldrakes aren't nearly what they used to be. I hardly ever take them at 1850. At 1250 they're a liability.


I would absolutely love a matchup like this in a tournament.

And you would get rolled.

Gundor2 wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Gundor2 wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm going to argue against Obliterators. They're exceptionally overpriced considering what other armies are fielding these days.

CSM does well to concentrate on what it does best - rushing the enemy for a T2 charge.



Units you want:

Cultists to satisfy the troops requirement for your CAD.
Bike Lords w/ PF/LC, MoN and other upgrades
Bike Sorcerers tooled up with spell familiar, ML3, etc.
Juggernaut Lords w/ Axe of Blind Fury
Maulerfiends
Heldrakes (maybe 1...they were pretty heavily nerfed and aren't nearly as useful now)
Spawn with either MoN, or unmarked if you put a Juggerlord in there with them
Havocs w/ Lascannons or Autocannons
Min Plague Marines squads in Rhinos w/ 2x specials
Noise Marines


Units to avoid:

Chaos Space Marines (in Power Armor)
Terminators
Cult troops that aren't Plague or Noise marines
Oblits (way too expensive)
Defilers (overpriced by at least 50 points)
Helbrutes
Pretty much everything else in the codex


You are playing Chaos Space Marines - you honestly couldn't be that guy if you tried, with the codex the way it is. That said, most people aren't prepared to deal with 4x5 Spawn units with 3x attached ICs (ally with Crimson Slaughter for the extra unit and HQ).

If it were me, I'd be looking at this, running 1248. Optionally, you could drop a unit of Nurgle Spawn and 7 of those cultists (then fold the Sorcerer or Crimson Slaughter lord into the same Spawn unit), and replace it with a Maulerfiend and an Obliterator or something.

CSM CAD:

Sorcerer on bike w/ spell familiar and sigil, and meltabombs: 175
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

Lord on Juggernaut w/ Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil, MoK, meltabombs: 175
5 Spawn: 150

17 Cultists: 78
10 Cultists: 50

Crimson Slaughter CAD:

Lord on bike w/ sigil, powerfist, lightning claw, slaughterer's horns, daemonheart, mark of nurgle, blight grenades: 210
5x Nurgle Spawn: 180

10x Cultists: 50

Wow! Do you play Chaos at all? Oblits with MoN are one of the strongest units for Chaos. The list you propose will get riddled off the board. No long range at all. And at 1250 the Cultists are almost useless. Your opponent will kill off the HTH units before they make contact. And that's only two units. There will be nothing left of them. I predict tabling by turn three.

Please Bob do not listen do that guy. It's all good if you don't like my list but don't listen to him.

It's called a rush list. Do you even 40k?

1) Your Bike Lord is going to get ROFLstomped because he has 3 wounds and nobody to take hits for him. The Black Mace at AP4 is garbage - almost 50 points down the drain.
2) Oblits are insanely overpriced for what they do. You've got 500 points wrapped up in 6 models that aren't fearless. Spoiler Alert- they're going to fething die and then your offensive capability is zero. 6 Lascannons or Plasma Cannons isn't going to suppress anybody. My army list would fething laugh and take your lunch money. Have fun shooting at Spawn with 3 wounds a piece, because they're going to charge you T2 and the attached IC will wipe the unit.
3) You recommend Chaos Terminators? Hahahahahaha OK...amateur night here.
4) Heldrakes aren't nearly what they used to be. I hardly ever take them at 1850. At 1250 they're a liability.


I would absolutely love a matchup like this in a tournament.

And you would get rolled.

By what? You are delusional.

T1:

6 Plasma / Las Cannons each hitting 1 Spawn at best, they're in cover so I make 3 saves, boom one Spawn down. I advance 12 + D6"

T2:

You do the same thing and kill one more spawn. I have 13 left plus 3 attached ICs. I ROFLstomp you because almost half your army is 6 SnP models and I'm moving 12"+ per turn. I charge, you die, and I lick up your delicious tears, then teach you how to play Chaos Space Marines.

Heh. I've run 15 spawn. It's gnarly. The self allying is questionably legal and pointless in this instance anyway. Cultists** are dead weight.

Well this is pretty depressing. Looks like lot of things are not viable anymore.

Seems like spawn and bikers are both pretty popular these days. Problem is, I have neither..

Basically what I have to work with:

Tons of chaos marines
20x Cultists (from Dark Vengeance)
More terminators than I can count
Vindicator
3x Rhinos
Predator
Land Raider
10xThousand sons
10x Plague Marines
10x Zerkers
Daemon Prince/Lords (walking)/Termi Lords/Sorcerers
Heldrake
Oblits
1xMaulerfiend
2x Defilers

This is what I was building my list off of. I am absolutely open to purchasing/painting new things.
I very much want to have a decently strong, take all comers list (which could be difficult, considering how it seems Chaos is sort of weak nowadays). But again, these are going to be casual friendly games. Are we that bad off that I will be forced to take a handful of units from the whole codex? Doesn't seem too fun to me.

Once again, thanks for the help, and for answering my questions!

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Heh. I've run 15 spawn. It's gnarly. The self allying is questionably legal and pointless in this instance anyway. Cultists** are dead weight.

Crimson Slaughter and Chaos Space Marines are battle brothers. No problem taking them as allies as far as I know.

I agree with you that cultists aren't doing much in that list...it was built under the assumption of 2 sources, no unbound. But if Unbound is allowed then by all means drop the Cultists and go nuts!

150 points would get you a squad of Havocs with Las cannons or Autocannons to fish for First Blood on a weaker transport or something.

Alternatively it would get you a Maulerfiend and some more upgrades.


OP: if you're willing to use counts as, I have had nobody complain about my using Direwolves as spawn (on 40 mm round bases) as long as I'm lenient with LOS. They're way cheaper than actual Spawn... $25/10 or something like that.

Proxy your marines as cultists. Explain that they are alpha legion and that the cultists are cosplaying marines...

Put them back in your pants, folks. JR1588 has some very specific needs, and your bickering is not useful for his purposes.