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So I wanted to share back the maths I did for a deimos vindicator and its chances of an explodes result against the various different AVs if given schism of mars. I didn't want to derail the other thread as this is specific to its effectiveness with schism of mars and explodes results.

So here is the maths against av14. The 5/6 is the chance of not scoring a pen.
1-((1-(8/9 x (1-(5/6)^4) x1/3))^3)

This is the maths broken down with av14 as an example:
(5/6)^4 is the chance of not scoring a pen with an individual hit.
1-(5/6)^4 gets the chance of scoring a pen with an individual hit.
8/9 x (1-(5/6)^4) x 1/3 includes now the chance of a hit (8/9) and the chance of an explodes (1/3). (This is where you want to stop if using just 1 shot).
1 - (8/9 x (1-(5/6)^4) x 1/3) gives the inverse of a hit scoring an explodes.
(1 - (8/9 x (1-(5/6)^4) x1/3))^3 gives the chance of three shots not scoring an explodes result.
1-((1-(8/9 x (1-(5/6)^4) x 1/3))^3) gives the inverse of 3 shots not scoring an explodes, hence at least 1 shot scoring an explodes.


With all 3 shots and schism of mars a deimos vindicator has a 39.5% chance of exploding an av14 vehicle in 1 round of shooting.
Against av13 (using 2/3 in place of 5/6) it becomes 55.8% chance of an explodes in one round of shooting.
Against av12 (using 1/2) it becomes a 62.4% chance.
Against av11 (using 1/3) it becomes a 64.6% chance.
Against av10 (using 1/6) it becomes a 65.1% chance.

This is only considering the chance of at least 1 explodes results, does not take into account the effect of multiple explodes results for superheavies, hull points stripped if an explodes doesn't occur for any vehicle or other damage caused by the pen table. It also does not include cover or invuln saves.

Therefore I would personally conclude that the deimos vindicator becomes an incredibly good vehicle hunter when given schism of mars (or tank hunter from a seige master of the seige assault list). There is nothing else for 155pts that I can think of with better chances of explodes results, shy of 4 or 5 melta in a pod (would have to do the maths on that), and even then - the deimos gets to sit back and shoot all game, almost always being in range, unlike a melta gun. It is pretty vulnerable with av11 sides like most vindis and preds, but its 48" range helps that out a lot. If giving it schism of mars, I would suggest a skyshield for it, to give it not just a 4++ but also better fields of fire.

Of course D weapon wraithguard jumping out a serp with their guns would do a better job, but comparing any anti-tank to those is pointless as nothing else in the game even comes close. So apart from these - a deimos with schism must be one of the most frightening prospects for any mech-heavy opponents in my mind.

What are your reactions after seeing those odds of explodes results?

Editted for incorrect spelling of deimos.

I wish chaos had a legacy as good as schism of mars.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I wish chaos had a legacy as good as schism of mars.

Having a scouting superheavy is pretty cool, or allowing rerolls on malefic powers. But schism of mars is pretty beasty.

But for chaos we get 6 laser destroyer rapiers that can fire at 2 different targets and with greater durability (admittedly at bs3, 36" range and no tank hunter) for 15pts less if taking renegades, so there is that.
Having said that - I know what my BA are getting next ;-).

The laser Vindicator is good, but is ultimately a one hit wonder. The front armor is good, but we're in a game now where hitting the side and/or rear of a vehicle is very easy to accomplish. It is also a pigeon-holed into a specific role: tank destroyer. If your opponent has no vehicles (and many of the good lists don't, or at least have cheap throwaway vehicles), then at best you're pegging three infantry a turn. Even more amusing, while it has a very good chance of popping a vehicle, it can't even reliably kill a monstrous creature in one turn.

I'll still be taking one (possibly two in bigger games) for my Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children, as lascannons are their preferred anti-tank weapon of choice, and this helps keep that theme. I just don't expect it to survive past turn 1 or 2.

The fact that it is specialized against tanks is an issue. But for 155pts with schism, I'd personally rate it worth the risk looking at how utterly devestating it is against anything with an av.

I believe the 48" range makes side armour shots something it will be less susceptible to compared to most line battle tanks. Although admittedly pods, jetbikes and outflanking units will get side armour by T1/2 anyway.

That thing is hull mounted right? All an opponent has to do is is not deploy his most important vehicle in your font arc or move it out (or even give it some cover). The inability to fire at full effectiveness while moving is a downside.

Pivoting on the spot counts as remaining starionary. I think it is better to think of this as line of sight 'artillery' that has the option to move and only fire one shot, rather than a line tank that has the option to remain still and fire upto 3. It'll be much more effective used as such imo.

It's the height of a rhino, which means, for anything shorter than a rhino, it can hide behind a rhino.
3 twin-linked lascannons is also pretty good air defense. Yes, you're only hitting on 6's, but with 3 tries and re-rolls, it's worth doing.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
It's the height of a rhino, which means, for anything shorter than a rhino, it can hide behind a rhino.
3 twin-linked lascannons is also pretty good air defense. Yes, you're only hitting on 6's, but with 3 tries and re-rolls, it's worth doing.

Actually this is ordnance. So no snap firing.

The pivoting is a good point. Sometimes I play with tables that have real LoS blocking terrain that is large enough for a vehicle. In those situations the lack of mobility is killer, but unless there's a lot of those, an enemy couldn't really approach under cover as much as just hide.

 ansacs wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
It's the height of a rhino, which means, for anything shorter than a rhino, it can hide behind a rhino.
3 twin-linked lascannons is also pretty good air defense. Yes, you're only hitting on 6's, but with 3 tries and re-rolls, it's worth doing.

Actually this is ordnance. So no snap firing.

Unless it has battle of sarosh for skyfire, tank hunter and interceptor ;-). Still - no snapfiring... but definitely good anti air, albeit for 1 turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
The pivoting is a good point. Sometimes I play with tables that have real LoS blocking terrain that is large enough for a vehicle. In those situations the lack of mobility is killer, but unless there's a lot of those, an enemy couldn't really approach under cover as much as just hide.

Yeh lack of LoS to things that have indirect fire or advance behind LoS cover is definitely a weakness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
It's the height of a rhino, which means, for anything shorter than a rhino, it can hide behind a rhino.
3 twin-linked lascannons is also pretty good air defense. Yes, you're only hitting on 6's, but with 3 tries and re-rolls, it's worth doing.

Don't think of them as lascannons - think of them as tl st9 ap1 shots that allow you to roll 4 dice for armour penetration and pick the highest. Waaaay better than lascannons, apart from the whole lack of snap firing.

Plop one on a skyshield - will really benefit its PoV.