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Hi there guys.

I started playing 40k about one year ago with some tyranids I had since 2002 and introduced a good friend of mine in the game (he already knew the universe before).
My friend has a very negative attitude everytime he loses any kind of game, blaming everyone else, his bad luck or blaming me if necessary.
What I find almost "unbearable" is the passive agressive style during a match, blaming you if you try to do something bad to him. Its true that he got into the game 3-4 months after me and I've only played 2-3 games more than him, but if I got an objective and attempt to get it (blow up a vehicle, first blood...) he starts to complain with things like "oh... ok ok, I suppose we will be done in 30 mins if you play like that... I should be packing my models" with an increased over time hate and negativity during the game, blaming the bad rolls or even me for bringing a Flyrant or a Dakkafex.

Moreover, he plays CSM and dont want to listen some advices I tried to give to him. He even does not try to learn some basic shenanigans or common sense plays like having 10 marines in cover against a brood of 15 termagants just to be "more secure" but giving an objective, having rhinos in cover over the whole game with khorne berserkers within, landing a Be'Lakor in the midst of 2 dakkafexes and getting shot to death. He plays like he was in Call Of Duty or some first person shooter.

The thing is I love this guy, he's been a good friend for 15 years and I do want to play with him, but I feel burnt to ashes at the end of every game.

Do you have some similar situation? What could or should I do? I've tried to settle a low points game to teach some basics without my Flyrant (only have 1 and I dont have a cheesy list at all).

Thanks dakka!

Juuuuuust talk to him.


Or destroy his will to play the game by dominating him in every game.

Or ya know just talk to him

I don't think someone that plays csm can be happy. The best they got was an annoying mono build based around helldrakes, and if someone wants to play something else it is realy bad. You should tell him to get in to another army, otherwise he will he unhappy for a very long time.

Desubot has it right, especially if he's a good friend. I'd seriously just ask him - 'clearly you don't enjoy this too much, how can we make this a more enjoyable experience (for us both)?'

Also it sounds as if he really doesn't enjoy having his tactical mistakes pointed out, but hey... some people you just can't help

What does he hope to get from playing the game?

Does he actually like the game?

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Does he actually like the game?

Exalted.

OP: You're gonna have to actually ask him about it. I ran into a similar situation with a friend of mine and it turned out he didn't like playing the game, he only played it because he knew I liked it.

Makumba wrote:
I don't think someone that plays csm can be happy. The best they got was an annoying mono build based around helldrakes, and if someone wants to play something else it is realy bad. You should tell him to get in to another army, otherwise he will he unhappy for a very long time.

We dont play competitive so formations or builds is not the matter here. We try to play and enjoy differents units, so I think is not about the army. Btw, he always liked the Chaos theme, played a Dark Avenger in D&D and love the chaos and dark / spikey stuff!

zerosignal wrote:
Desubot has it right, especially if he's a good friend. I'd seriously just ask him - 'clearly you don't enjoy this too much, how can we make this a more enjoyable experience (for us both)?'

Also it sounds as if he really doesn't enjoy having his tactical mistakes pointed out, but hey... some people you just can't help

Right about the strategic stuff. I tried to convince him to field some obliterators, but refuse to do it because "They dont convince me at all" but sometimes he lacks firepower. When I killed Be'Lakor, he blamed me for doing so. He landed him because he needed to killa psycher (Zoanthrope), and he managed to do it, but got raped against 1 dakkafex. He then blamed me because dakkafex is cheaper and "better", but... well, sometimes he fails at trying to understand rules or tactics, reading forums, read de BRB for fun and learn basics...

nareik wrote:
What does he hope to get from playing the game?

He expects to win. Every single time he fails a roll or gets a 1, he gets angry. Same happen when he plays LoL: he do dumb plays, got wrecked and complains about his luck. I tried to tell him about having fun no matter what happens in the game, I tried to explain that a 3-1 in turn 2 IS NOT a defeat. By turn 2 - 3, if he's losing, he starts to blame the rolls or lose the interest in the game.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Does he actually like the game?

Yup, we tried to get into the game 10-12 years ago but failed due to the lack of people in our city.

 Orblivion wrote:
.

OP: You're gonna have to actually ask him about it. I ran into a similar situation with a friend of mine and it turned out he didn't like playing the game, he only played it because he knew I liked it.

He does like it, I'm sure. He sold some airsoft stuff to get into the game and invested some money in his army.


thanks for your replies guys, I think I should try to play some soft games and explain him some basics and common sense plays.

Try to get him to try your army while you try his. If you can beat your own army with his, he'll probably open his eyes to more of the tactics involved.

 Desubot wrote:
Juuuuuust talk to him.


Or destroy his will to play the game by dominating him in every game.

Or ya know just talk to him

This. Although tbh, I'd do less talking and more dominating. His problem seems to be a personal one with the game not being terribly fair, and it sounds like he wants it to be a fun fair balanced time, but this game is not balanced. If you just wipe him off the board every time he's either gonna quit or he's gonna tighten his belt and start changing his strategy. Whatever his response, that's on him. You can keep attempting to have a fluffy fun time with the guy, but his complaining is clearly affecting your own desire to play with him at all if it's at a point where you're asking for advice.

You might try talking him into learning an army that's powerful and has a decent learning curve as well, but I can understand that might not work out given the sheer investment we see in an army.

If you really wanna trow him a curveball, suggest he play your army and you switch to his. See how he adjusts to some different tactics or units and see if it affects how he plays.

You could also just choose to do other stuff with him, maybe play some of the outlier games like space hulk or the new assassination one that's coming out. Maybe he'd do better with a more structured skirmish style game. It does sound like a win could give him some confidence in any case.

Actually, the way you deal with negative behavior is to not feed the person acting out, while feeding postive behavior. Eventually, they will start to seek the positive affirmation over the negative attention. Simply put, ignore them when they are being negative, respond positively when they are being positive. They will stop being negative around you, or just go away. Either way, problem solved.

SJ

As a side note, is your friend a vet, or does he have any kind of brain injury?

However, some people just enjoy being negative. Is your friend the kind of contrarian, hyper-critical guy (they are often very funny, which is how they get away with it) that never seems to be positive?

Whenever I've teach 40k to someone new, I always gimp myself by taking 10-20% less points than them. That way I don't have to hold back and it makes it challenging. You might try taking less points(without telling him of course) until he starts winning and gets more confidence. One of my friends is similar to yours. He would always pout when he was losing, even to go so far as to purposely knock over my models as he removed his from the table. The only time he was ever happy is when we played 2 on 2 and we were on the same team. Maybe try that and show him how to have fun even when losing.

There are soo many topics that get soo much attention just regarding simple social situations.

Really, it makes you feel bad for being a person.

The hobby is full if people like that unfortunately.

A good friend who I play a lot turns quite aggressive when we play and calls me a cheat for not measuring 6" non critical moves properly where I may gain 1/2" or so. All our other friends just push up about 6 as it's always casual but he looks for anything to call you out on and it's exhausting and not fun, also drags quick games into hours of rule proving and measuring to mm of movement at times.

You kinda if have to shrug it off. It's a competative game and even mess around games with mates can get heated with some people. Just got to tell people to chill out, relax have a beer and enjoy the bloodshed!

Kind of a hard to "enjoy" stuff if you don't what your army is doing. For example I hate how weak IG is right now. I hate the fact I can't get a good game vs the people I play the most. But my army is mostly IG, minus the special HQs which gave it flavor. With chaos it is a bit different, If someone wants to play this or that faction you can't. I can't even imagine how frustrating it has to be to play something else then generic chaos, like 1k sons or some other chaos chapter. Add this to an army being in general on the weak spectrum and you get a player who isn't happy.

Makumba wrote:
I don't think someone that plays csm can be happy. The best they got was an annoying mono build based around helldrakes, and if someone wants to play something else it is realy bad. You should tell him to get in to another army, otherwise he will he unhappy for a very long time.

not sure what your saying here, i have 20k of CSM does that make me clinically depressed? i mean really. csm can be really good, just depends how you play them. (by really good i mean in a casual setting not must make uber list to win every pro tourney). there is plenty of ways to run them, you can go with the drakes though that is rahter dead with the nerfing. you can run a DP, jugger lord, spawn and if you want to blow some more points go with maulerfiends and RUSH into assault. you can make a softer gunline up. there is plenty of different ways to play them and for more fun than some of the crazy deathstars...

now how to deal with the problem. they need to adjust their attitude, and you can help them do that. dont dominate them but dont be all soft on them, they need to maybe game a bit more and fiddle with lists and find the best way for them to play the army. let them proxy models cos not everyone can afford to buy all the combinations of everything. get them to try lots of combinations

I can tell you what not to do............. have a rant on Facebook about him on your gaming group.

I finally snapped after 5 years of the behaviour that you mentioned. I got sick of the "you play Eldar, I'm never going to win against them". Well not if you're not going to read your rules, and just bring an army list you got off the internet the night before, with no idea how to use it.

Before the anti Eldar hate starts, I don't spam WS or use competitive lists, I always choose random lists I'd find fun to play.

I think the best advice has been given, and it's what I should have done. Just talk to them and try to help them, as it certainly isn't enjoyable for anyone playing against an opponent who gives up after first turn.

Incidentally I had a really close game against Chaos last week. It was the one where you have a flag in each deployment zone, I managed to control both by end of game, but only because one fire dragon out of three amazingly survived a lot of shooting to stay on his flag

Gapow wrote:
*snips*

I finally snapped after 5 years of the behaviour that you mentioned. I got sick of the "you play Eldar, I'm never going to win against them". Well not if you're not going to read your rules, and just bring an army list you got off the internet the night before, with no idea how to use it.

Before the anti Eldar hate starts, I don't spam WS or use competitive lists, I always choose random lists I'd find fun to play.

*snips

I have lost pretty much every single game of Fantasy I have played because I didn't know my own rules inside out, and didn't have a clue about any of the other armies I was facing. It's all on me (and some dreadful people bringing dreadful lists to friendly practice games...).

I picked up the new Eldar book yesterday, and actually started *gasp* reading through it. I love it, it has The Fluff and The Crunch, afaiac.

I knocked up a quick 1500pts just using what I have based, and I haven't got a single ERMAGHERD ITS BRURKERN unit in there (I think?!). It's all Aspect, led by Karandras.

I'll fill it out with some Fire Prisms and Vypers and get a few cheaper troop units via Guardian squads.

My mate has just started 40k with Skitarii, and he really wants some Knights, so I'll buy a WK and we'll have a pre-agreed Big Stompy Robot smackdown. Can't wait.

That kind of behavior could mean deeper problems. It's futile to try, it's unfair bs, who even cares - sounds like depression talking.

And tell him to quit LoL, it's a gak game designed to make you angry.

 Rautakanki wrote:
That kind of behavior could mean deeper problems.

This. OP: This guy sounds like a real donkey-cave during game. You said he's your good friend, but maybe he's an donkey-cave outside the game as well?

 Rautakanki wrote:
That kind of behavior could mean deeper problems. It's futile to try, it's unfair bs, who even cares - sounds like depression talking.

And tell him to quit LoL, it's a gak game designed to make you angry.

Well, he's always been a whiner in many situations, blaming his luck but actually doing nothing about solving his problems in his life. In LoL we have fun when we're easily winning a game, but if he's doing poorly (due to bad engages, stupid movements or no map awareness at all) he blames all the universe, his bad luck or whatever, but if I try to make him understand his errors he just rants.

A problem I see is he really hates losing units or models. I've tried to make him understand this is a war game and casualties is part of the game, but he continously blames his rolls yelling at his bad luck...

I know it may be a deeper problem. I tried to play W40k to help him out and have friendly games. He just need to read some of his rules as I always point out some interesting combinations.

Have you tried introducing other people to your gaming circle or going to some game days? Maybe if he has wider exposure to the hobby and other armies he will realise the onus is on him and his tactics rather than you being a horrible opponent.

Seriously, I manage people like this all the time in my job and some people just need a good kick up the ar$e every now and then.

I had this same exact thing. I beared it for years and tried to nicely give advice but it didn't help. Only when I finally had enough and told it to him straight, with a touch of too much offense I might add, he understood and stopped.

These days he acknowledges he isn't making the best plays, and instead of being in denial listen to advice and actually heeds it. Playing is fun again with him.

From what you've said it sound like he has this cinematic vision in his mind how things will go (he imagines: hiding his marines in cover for better protection, whereas rules are: now they are slower and a few leaves doesn't really improve power armour) and he is frustrated when the cinematic glory he imagines in his head doesn't play out on the table.

Try playing a few games where instead of aiming to win you try and understand how he imagines the game playing out then trying to make it happen... think of it as more a shared story writing exercise instead of a competitive game?

Hopefully he will enjoy this a bit more, and you can use this enjoyment to help him learn how the mechanics of the game actually work and slowly guide him to more tactical play?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other thing is to make sure you appreciate the small victories and moments of humour in the game. Like perhaps you lost overall, but one particular part of the game worked out particularly well for you. So you'd take heart from that moment.

It's not necessarily a deeper problem. Maybe he has just issues coping with frustration? Then I'd say losing is a good exercise. And yes the aforementioned 'glorious cinematic', something that video games build up too much, no doubt plays a role. Your friend needs to be humbled, as unkind as that sounds.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


not sure what your saying here, i have 20k of CSM does that make me clinically depressed? i mean really. csm can be really good, just depends how you play them. (by really good i mean in a casual setting not must make uber list to win every pro tourney). there is plenty of ways to run them, you can go with the drakes though that is rahter dead with the nerfing. you can run a DP, jugger lord, spawn and if you want to blow some more points go with maulerfiends and RUSH into assault. you can make a softer gunline up. there is plenty of different ways to play them and for more fun than some of the crazy deathstars...

now how to deal with the problem. they need to adjust their attitude, and you can help them do that. dont dominate them but dont be all soft on them, they need to maybe game a bit more and fiddle with lists and find the best way for them to play the army. let them proxy models cos not everyone can afford to buy all the combinations of everything. get them to try lots of combinations

now why someone would own 20k pts of an army is a completly separate matter. Am just pointing out that the way the lists are build do not make people happy. 6thed was the as few csm in a list as possible time for them. Sure if someone wanted to play an army carried by helldrakes, it may have been ok. But what if someone actualy wanted to use marines in his csm army. What if he wants to run a legion army in 7th, and the rules tell him to run msu units to zerg objectives? What if he is unlucky enough to want to play a legion list? I do not think it is possible to be happy with chaos as a chaos player. People can't deal with their army being weak, not that it makes them much happy about it, but it is much harder to deal with a codex making your faction impossible to play the way you want it.

Ah and a chaos gunline dies to even my IG list and IG suck in 7th.

Makumba wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


not sure what your saying here, i have 20k of CSM does that make me clinically depressed? i mean really. csm can be really good, just depends how you play them. (by really good i mean in a casual setting not must make uber list to win every pro tourney). there is plenty of ways to run them, you can go with the drakes though that is rahter dead with the nerfing. you can run a DP, jugger lord, spawn and if you want to blow some more points go with maulerfiends and RUSH into assault. you can make a softer gunline up. there is plenty of different ways to play them and for more fun than some of the crazy deathstars...

now how to deal with the problem. they need to adjust their attitude, and you can help them do that. dont dominate them but dont be all soft on them, they need to maybe game a bit more and fiddle with lists and find the best way for them to play the army. let them proxy models cos not everyone can afford to buy all the combinations of everything. get them to try lots of combinations

now why someone would own 20k pts of an army is a completly separate matter. Am just pointing out that the way the lists are build do not make people happy. 6thed was the as few csm in a list as possible time for them. Sure if someone wanted to play an army carried by helldrakes, it may have been ok. But what if someone actualy wanted to use marines in his csm army. What if he wants to run a legion army in 7th, and the rules tell him to run msu units to zerg objectives? What if he is unlucky enough to want to play a legion list? I do not think it is possible to be happy with chaos as a chaos player. People can't deal with their army being weak, not that it makes them much happy about it, but it is much harder to deal with a codex making your faction impossible to play the way you want it.

Ah and a chaos gunline dies to even my IG list and IG suck in 7th.

Rules tell him it's better to run Chaos Cultists to zerg objectives over actual CSM.